David,

I have a PhD in chemistry and I don’t need mini lectures on scientific method, but since we started this, I have some comments. Physicists and chemists don’t need to proclaim that they are doing science, they show it by the way they conduct their research. It’s not just a question of having the paraphernalia of science, but also of thinking critically and skeptically and trying to falsify hypotheses. I may be wrong, but these ideas have not been published in a peer reviewed journal but rather represent talks at meetings. We both know that these are not peer reviewed. It doesn’t seem that you got much critical feedback at these sessions.

If one is going to claim the authority of science, then we should stick to objective measurements and not throw in subjective pieces of evidence. You accept WVK’s subjective opinions about sounds created at Chichen Itza but you do not have sonograms of these sounds compared with sonograms of the proposed snake rattles. You opine that the flutter echoes at the Ball Court are “rattlesnake rattles or jaguar growls” but you have not shown with sonograms of these flutter echoes and sonograms of rattlesnake rattles and sonograms of jaguar growls.

You have also made what appear to be conflicting statements with regard to the Castillo. In your 1992 and 1998 paper, you make a big point of the importance of 91 steps of the given dimensions.” The IR of the Kukulkan pyramid is written as a summation of 91 terms, one for each step. This solution was first given publicly in 2002 at an acoustical conference in Cancun, Mexico. I provided analytical, graphical and sound simulation results, and explained its many benefits over the diffraction solution. Details are shown in my Acoustics 08 paper [intellagence.eu.com] .”

However, In one of your posts to Maat - [www.hallofmaat.com] - you say “Yes, Bernard, different geometries produce different sounds. Having exactly 91 stairs is of great importance for the calendar but is of little significance for the chirp. “

Similarly. you accept that a handclap in front of the T of W produces a quetzal chirp. This staircase has many fewer stairs and different dimensions of tread, riser, and angle than the Castillo. If quetzal chirps can be produced by a variety of staircases, the hypothesis of intentionality is fatally weakened.

Your computer model of the quetzal chirp is not as strong evidence as is it seems, it is a high tech example of circular reasoning. We already know that a pyramid with 91 steps of the Castillo dimensions produces a quetzal chirp so imputing these numbers proves what we already know. A critical scientist would investigate the range of parameters that would still produce a quetzal chirp. Would more or fewer steps of the Castillo dimensions radically change the chirp produced? A critical scientist would do sonograms of other pyramids with different numbers or different dimensions of steps to see if quetzal chirps would be produced. A critical scientist would consider and investigate the alternate hypothesis that the quetzal chirp of the Castillo is an epiphenomenon of the intentional Maya building 4 staircases with 91 steps because of the KNOWN calendric fixation of the Maya.

Given the hypothesis that the Maya intentionally built the Castillo to produce a quetzal chirp, a critical scientist would explore the question of exactly how the Maya did it. This is why I asked you in my post “how, you, would proceed to design a building to produce a quetzal chirp?” The Maya, without the advantages of computers and modern science, would have had to proceed by trial and error, right? Given your knowledge of acoustics, what would some of these trial buildings/staircases have looked like? Now, a critical scientist could ask a Mayanist about the existence of such structures.

With respect to your hypotheses about the Ball Court, I have several scientific objections. Apparently. flutter echoes are commonly found when there are two parallel walls. From here:

[www.akutek.info]

“Flutter-echoes

Flutter-echoes appears to be wave phenomena similar to standing waves, only with periods long enough (>50ms) to be perceived as separate sound events. When occurring between parallel walls the axial modes normal to the parallel walls will constitute the harmonics of a flutter-echo with period T and harmonic frequencies 1/T, 2/T,…. If the walls are hard and smooth, the higher harmonics can be prominent so that discrete tones are being heard. Due to little absorption at normal incidence and long free paths, decays are slow and reverberation time long, often leaving a late double slope at mid-high frequencies.
In addition to the pair of parallel walls, there is usually one more basic condition for a flutter-echo to appear, namely that absorption is unevenly distributed so that there is less absorption from the parallel walls than from the other surfaces. In terms of modes, this means that tangential modes and oblique modes are more damped than the axial modes in the actual direction, making the latter more prominent.”

The very first question a critical scientist would ask is if , whatever flutter echo is heard is just the result of parallel walls designed for playing the ball game with no intention of getting a particular sound.

The next question a critical scientist would ask is how to accurately reproduce the sounds made in the ball game.

the information on the balls and clothing from [en.wikipedia.org]

To get an accurate (scientific) flutter echo you should bounce solid rubber balls 10 and 12 inches (measured in hand spans) and weighing 3 to 6 pounds from the walls and do a sonogram of the resulting flutter echo.

Here is a description of the clothing worn by the ball players:” The basic hip-game outfit consisted of a loincloth, sometimes augmented with leather hip guards. Loincloths are found on the earliest ballplayer figurines from Tlatilco, Tlapacoya, and the Olmec culture, are seen in the Weiditz drawing from 1528 (below), and, with hip guards, are the sole outfit of modern day ulama players (above) – a span of nearly 3000 years.

In many cultures, further protection was provided by a thick girdle, most likely of wicker or wood covered in fabric or leather. Made of perishable materials, none of these girdles have survived, although many a stone "yoke" has been uncovered. Mis-named by earlier archaeologists due to its resemblance to an animal yoke, the stone yoke is thought to be too heavy for actual play and was likely used only before or after the game in ritual contexts.[30] In addition to providing some protection from the ball, the girdle or yoke would also have helped propel the ball with more force than the hip alone. Additionally, some players wore chest protectors called palmas which were inserted into the yoke and stood upright in front of the chest.”

A critical scientist would bounce the solid rubber balls from leather and wood yokes and do sonograms on the resulting flutter echoes.

If you want to claim rattlesnake and/or jaguar growl flutter echoes, a critical scientist would do sonograms of these sounds and compare them to the sonograms of flutter echoes produced by accurate reproductions of what actually happened in the ball game.

A critical scientist think of how the Maya would have designed a ball court to produce rattlesnake flutter echoes, that is, after proving by the procedure above that an actual sonogram of a rattlesnake was produced. What combination of spacing and height of walls would produce rattlesnake flutter echo. Are there evidences of trial and error ball courts of the Chichen Itza type?

You make any number of subjective and not scientific claims in your abstract for the AAAS meeting. I’ve bolded non-scientific claims or claims that are cultural and in error. You have failed to present evidence for all of these in these posts to Maat.

“Acoustical Insights and Solutions for Archaeological Mysteries at Chichen Itza
Friday, February 17, 2012: 10:00 AM
Room 202-204 (VCC West Building)
David Lubman , Acoustical Society of America and Institute of Noise Control Engineering, Westminster, CA

Recent findings at Chichen Itza, Mexico suggest that its ancient builders were skilled theatrical sound designers who engineered sound for mind manipulation. Sound effects discovered so far seem uniquely appropriate for each monument and may be intentional designs. At the pyramid of Kukulkan (PK), echoes of handclaps are transformed into chirps of the resplendent quetzal, a bird venerated by the Maya since ancient times as messenger of the gods. Identifying the serpent shadow with the male quetzal’s diving behavior in the cloud forest at spring equinox supports intentional design of the chirp and provides an otherwise missing argument for intentional design of the PK. Transformation of handclaps into quetzal chirps would seem unexpected, even magical to both ancient and modern listeners. Since the chirped echo sounds unlike its handclap stimulus, some listeners may believe their handclap’s echo is not an echo, but an answer by a sentient being. In ancient times, this would support belief in the magical powers of Maya priests. Priests may also have acted as oracles by terminating questions to the gods at the PK with a handclap, then interpreting the chirped echoes as answers brought by the quetzal messenger of the gods. The chirped echo was once dismissed by archaeologists as an artifact of reconstruction. But evidence supportive of intentional design will be shown. Chichen Itza’s Great Ballcourt (GBC) is located close to the pyramid of Kukulkan. Findings there also suggest that sound was engineered for mind manipulation. But GBC sound effects are different and varied, suggesting that ancient designers had a broad repertoire of acoustic design tricks. Used skillfully, the whispering gallery (WG) can produce mind-bending sound effects supportive of ancient Maya mythology described in their best-known creation story, the Popol Vuh. GBC sound effects include hallucinatory disembodied voices, shouting crowds, the whooping of an invisible bird flying rapidly through the playing field, and, with middling success, growling jaguars and menacing rattlesnakes. These animals are also represented in GBC carvings and frescoes. Some sound effects may seem supernatural even to modern listeners. The WG can also be used for speech reinforcement by officials standing on either end temple to address listeners in the playing field. If the GBC acoustical design is intentional, the ancient Maya were amazingly skilled at producing theatrical sound effects. Many of the effects achieved would be challenging if not beyond the capabilities of contemporary theater designers."

Bernard

(Edited for formatting and insertion of link - Hermione)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2011 04:58AM by Hermione.