bernard Wrote:
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> One more time , briefly. The quetzal bird's
> habitat is in the highlands, not is the sea level
> Yucatan.

We agree that the quetzal's habitat is in the highlands. Central Mexico, including Teotihuican, was NOT quetzal habitat. The "Mexican invaders" (from the central valley of Mexico) did NOT live in quetzal habitat.

The highland Maya of southern Mexico and Guatemala have lived in quetzal habitat for 4000 years or more. A more recent date is suggested for the mysterious Teotihuicanis of the Central Valley, maybe around 400 BCE. But I do realize their was much cultural exchange between these sister cultures.

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>The god Quetzalcoatl is an import from
> Central Mexico in the Post-Classic and the name
> "Kukulkan" is a translation of quetzalcoatl, which
> in Mexico means "plumed serpent" NOT "quetzal
> serpent" . And the same applies to the Maya area.

Was kukulkan truly imposed on the Maya? Their myths involve quetzals from ancient times to the present. "Kukulkan" is a Mayan word. I believe "Quetzal" is a Mexican or Aztec word.

An example from the Dresden Codex is a drawing of the "Sovereign Plumed Serpent" in Dennis Tedlock's Revised translation of the Popol Vuh, the celebrated Maya creation myth. That suggests the Maya myth may have greater antiquity.

The drawing, depicting a god,identifiable as Kukulkan, is captioned:

"Here he is seated, holding a snake in his hand. On his back he wears a quetzal bird, with its head behind his, its wings at the level of his shoulders, and its tail hanging down to the ground."

A drawing by Karl Taube is The relationship, if any, with feathered fire serpents, is a matter of interest to scholars.

Moreover, the highland Maya traded on quetzal feathers. Much of it was with Teotihuacan. Itinerant vendors called pochtecas (merchants who lead) were prominent in Maya trade areas. They were also missionaries of sort, promoting the cult of Kukulkan. This is more evidence that the quetzal's cultural influence flowed from Maya to central Mexicans rather than the reverse.

Here's a more recent example from Guatemala City depicting the History of the Maya in a series of relief-carved panels. It depicts Tekun Uman, terminal king of the K'iche' (Quiché) Maya people. He is riding to battle against the Spanish conquistador Don Pedro de Alvarado. A quetzal accompanies him into battle. (I see the quetzal as a symbol of the Maya spirit.)

Soon,Tekun Uman is slain by the conquistador. As the king dies, and with him, the quetzal falls dead on Tekun Uman's body, its chest stained permanently red by Tekun Uman's blood.

The cultural importance of the quetzal is shown in place names in Maya areas. Guatamala, still heavilly Maya, names its currency the "quetzal". It shows a quetzal flying across the top of its paper currency, its long tail undulating like a serpent.

This evidence of the quetzal had greater cultural importance to the Maya than to the invaders. It seems counterintuitive that Mexican invaders forced the Mayan word Kukulkan onto the Maya, and that as a direct translation of the central Mexican god named "quetzalcoatl"

Can you usefully comment on this?