Home of the The Hall of Ma'at on the Internet
Home
Discussion Forums
Papers
Authors
Web Links

May 6, 2024, 12:10 pm UTC    
November 22, 2011 08:12AM
Katherine Reece Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> A lot of mistakes are made by well intentioned and
> good scientists when they step outside the area of
> their expertise. That's why I want to see
> something supporting the Maya cultural connections
> being made; and to see it in a peer reviewed
> journal because then Mesoamericanists can double
> check the cultural connections. And frankly,
> that's how history books are changed.
--------------------------------------

Kat. I strongly agree that scientists are more prone to mistakes when they make pronouncements outside of their field. That’s precisely why rejection of acoustical findings at Maya sites is spurious. Mayanists rejection is unscientific and easily rebutted.

Archaeoacoustics is interdisciplinary. It needs archaeologists, acousticians, and musicians or psychoacousticians.

Rejecting Mayanists were not just uninterested in objective consideration of acoustical findings at Chichen Itza. They were downright hostile. Mayanists didn’t recognize that acoustics is a hard science. Confronted with novel evidence, rejecting Mayanists covered their ears and raised the drawbridge. That’s simply bad science!

That’s the difference between Mayanists who reject intentional acoustics at Chichen Itza and the multidisciplinary team at Stanford assembled by CCRMA to study Chavín de Huántar. Contrast their response with Stanford, whose paper for the forthcoming AAAS meeting is titled:

“A Multidisciplinary Methodology for Studying Ancient Auditory Environments”

I would gladly have invited Mayanists to speak at AAAS. But since they did no science they had nothing to contribute.

Wayne Van Kirk tried valiantly to persuade Mayanists to consider evidence he patiently collected for intentional sound at Maya sites. Quite a few Mayanists wrote in support of his postings. But the institutional response was ridicule and rejection.

That’s when I became interested. As a recognized acoustical scientist I thought I could speak to other scientists across disciplinary lines. Since institutional Mayanists minds were closed. I did my best to substitute for them. Our work product should improve if Mayanists participate in the research instead of obstructing it.

Here's what's new. Acoustics introduces a new form of evidence that is essentially independent of culture. If Mayanists interpretations and confident acoustical findings appear to conflict, it is the Mayanists task to reconcile them. Such conflict signals opportunities for new learning.

About a decade ago I was contacted by an academic historian of science at a university in Arizona who was following the acoustical debate with fascination. Archaeologist’s hostility to evidence of intentional acoustic design mirrored an earlier conflict between archaeoastronomy advocates (Anthony Aveni and others) and archaeologists. Aveni believed some ancient ritual sites were designed to be astronomical observatories. The opposition demanded epigraphic evidence that the ancients were aware of periodicity of the sun, moon, and stars. Eventually, Aveni provided that evidence, and archaoastronomy became accepted - after about a quarter of a century. The science historian thought archaeoacoustics was following a parallel path. But archaeoacoustics IS becoming accepted science. Unless Mayanist attitude changes, the joint paper you asked for will not be written, and history will not remember rejectionists kindly.

Subject Author Posted

Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 08, 2011 12:09PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione September 11, 2011 11:01AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 11, 2011 11:46AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg September 11, 2011 09:14PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 11, 2011 11:54PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 12, 2011 10:57AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 12, 2011 03:44PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 12, 2011 08:05PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 13, 2011 04:27PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 13, 2011 07:54PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 13, 2011 08:35PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 14, 2011 10:04AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 12:16PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 14, 2011 01:27PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 05:20PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 07:25PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 15, 2011 10:07AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 15, 2011 04:40PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 16, 2011 10:58AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 16, 2011 12:25PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 16, 2011 02:47PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard September 13, 2011 08:45PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past (Edited)

WVK September 14, 2011 09:05AM

Moderation note

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 12:18PM

Re: Moderation note

WVK September 14, 2011 01:12PM

Re: Moderation note

Hermione September 14, 2011 03:26PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past (Edited)

David Lubman November 16, 2011 09:39AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 14, 2011 09:37AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 14, 2011 10:55AM

Moderation Note

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 12:19PM

Re: Moderation Note

WVK September 14, 2011 01:09PM

Re: Moderation Note

Hermione September 14, 2011 03:22PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 15, 2011 11:35AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece October 19, 2011 08:48PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 20, 2011 07:40PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece October 20, 2011 10:03PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 25, 2011 12:19PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd October 25, 2011 11:16PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 26, 2011 10:12AM

Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer October 28, 2011 01:27PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 28, 2011 07:47PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard October 28, 2011 08:28PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 29, 2011 09:37AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard October 29, 2011 10:12AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 29, 2011 12:51PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer October 29, 2011 07:31AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard October 26, 2011 11:48AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 26, 2011 01:50PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard October 26, 2011 03:47PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 26, 2011 07:31PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard October 26, 2011 08:20PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 27, 2011 09:28AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd October 27, 2011 12:41PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 27, 2011 01:53PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd October 28, 2011 01:07PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 28, 2011 12:08PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd October 28, 2011 01:15PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 28, 2011 03:22PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 30, 2011 10:09AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 08, 2011 06:16AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 08, 2011 08:59AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 13, 2011 09:41PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 14, 2011 09:57AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 14, 2011 11:27AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 15, 2011 12:53PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 15, 2011 03:02PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 16, 2011 03:59PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 16, 2011 05:11PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece November 16, 2011 06:33PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 16, 2011 08:10PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 18, 2011 11:05AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 17, 2011 10:22AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 18, 2011 11:07AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 18, 2011 12:05PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece November 20, 2011 11:55PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer November 21, 2011 11:08AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 22, 2011 08:12AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 22, 2011 10:16AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 22, 2011 11:39AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 22, 2011 05:30PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 23, 2011 09:20AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard November 23, 2011 11:00AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 23, 2011 12:45PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 23, 2011 10:46AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 23, 2011 12:14PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 23, 2011 01:15PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 23, 2011 04:48PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 25, 2011 10:24AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 23, 2011 08:39PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard November 23, 2011 11:23PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 01, 2011 09:05PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece December 01, 2011 09:13PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 01, 2011 10:25PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 03, 2011 10:36AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 01, 2011 10:40PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman December 03, 2011 09:27PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione December 04, 2011 04:34AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 04, 2011 11:38PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece December 08, 2011 12:01PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione December 02, 2011 04:53PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 22, 2011 08:17PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 23, 2011 05:27AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer November 23, 2011 08:21AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Sirfiroth November 23, 2011 10:12AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer November 23, 2011 04:41PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 23, 2011 10:41PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 24, 2011 10:18AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece November 14, 2011 12:06PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 14, 2011 08:40PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece November 16, 2011 01:40PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 19, 2011 08:04PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece November 20, 2011 01:13AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd November 21, 2011 10:00PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 21, 2011 12:00AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard November 21, 2011 12:48PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 21, 2011 05:06PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione September 14, 2011 03:05AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 14, 2011 08:41AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 04, 2011 11:57PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 05, 2011 11:52AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 05, 2011 12:49PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 05, 2011 10:16PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 06, 2011 12:22AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman December 06, 2011 04:06AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 06, 2011 03:00PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman December 06, 2011 11:41PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Lee Olsen December 07, 2011 10:00AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman December 07, 2011 09:07PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Greg Reeder December 07, 2011 10:26PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece December 10, 2011 12:12PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 10, 2011 02:19AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione December 10, 2011 05:00AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 06, 2011 11:29AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 06, 2011 12:09PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 07, 2011 08:53PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 08, 2011 01:00AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 08, 2011 10:32AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 08, 2011 11:54AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 08, 2011 03:45PM

Moderator Note

Katherine Reece December 10, 2011 12:15PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg September 15, 2011 08:05AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 15, 2011 02:28PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer September 13, 2011 01:36PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd October 30, 2011 11:18AM



Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login