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May 7, 2024, 1:33 am UTC    
December 04, 2011 11:38PM
I’m glad to talk about the science involved, but, first, given that this is a very long tread I would like to get some clarity on a few points.

1. Just a picky point. The structure continually referred to as the “Temple of Kukulkan” is called the “Castillo” by Mayanists and is not a temple to Kukulkan. If any structure at Chichen would qualify as a temple to Kukulkan, it would be the observatory (“el Caracol”) because round temples were associated with Quetzalcoatl in Central Mexico.

I don’t have your original papers, but I assume the 08 Paris paper you provided has the essentials.

Assuming for the purpose of this discussion that the recorded echo from El Castillo at Chichen Itza is identical to the chirp of the quetzal and that this chirp is unique.

You argue that the quetzal chirp is produced by a stair with 26.2 cm tread, 26.4 cm rise and 91 steps. Have you recorded the identical quetzal chirp from any other Mesoamerican pyramid (or structure)?

Are all handclaps at any distance equal imputs (other than diminished volume) for the purpose of producing the quetzal sound?

Do all stone staircases produce some kind of “chirp” with handclaps?

As an acoustical scientist, how would you go about designing a stone structure to produce a quetzal chirp from a handclap?

Since the Maya did not have oscilloscopes, fourier equations, calculus, etc., isn’t trial and error the only way for them to have designed this kind of pyramid?

With regard to the Ball Court at Chichen, you say that a flutter sound is produced: Is this “flutter” produced by a handclap, or only as you say “A flutter echo was heard each time a ball impacted a wall of the playing field or the hard surfaces of a ballplayers protective gear. The flutter frequency for wall impact, just over 4 Hz. The flutter frequency for impact on player’s regalia is twice that. Perceptually, 4 Hz is the frequency of maximum human sensitivity for the auditory percept called “fluctuation strength” often chosen for warning signals because of its alerting properties.”

Have you recorded this “flutter”? Have you recorded jaguar growls and/or rattlesnake rattles and shown that these sounds correspond to the flutter at Chichen Itza?

It seems incongruous that an identical “flutter” would be produced by a ball striking a stone wall and the leather protective paraphernalia of the ball players.

Also, to produce a realistic “flutter” you really need to test the sound using a solid rubber ball of the appropriate size, because that is what was used.

Just to clarify:

Wayne Van Kirk claims that the Temple of the Warriors also produces a quetzal chirp + a rattlesnake sound. Have you recorded these sounds also? If so, why would a completely different stair also produce a quetzal chirp and a rattlesnake sound without the ball court walls.

Do you also argue (not a scientific question) that the feathered serpent at Chichen and the sounds associated with it go all the way back to Classical Maya?

Once the exact extent of the claims made are clarified, we can discuss further
Bernard

Subject Author Posted

Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 08, 2011 12:09PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione September 11, 2011 11:01AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 11, 2011 11:46AM

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Katherine Griffis-Greenberg September 11, 2011 09:14PM

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Katherine Reece September 11, 2011 11:54PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 12, 2011 10:57AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 12, 2011 03:44PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 12, 2011 08:05PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 13, 2011 04:27PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 13, 2011 07:54PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 13, 2011 08:35PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

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Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

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Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 07:25PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 15, 2011 10:07AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 15, 2011 04:40PM

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WVK September 16, 2011 10:58AM

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Katherine Reece September 16, 2011 12:25PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 16, 2011 02:47PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard September 13, 2011 08:45PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past (Edited)

WVK September 14, 2011 09:05AM

Moderation note

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 12:18PM

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WVK September 14, 2011 01:12PM

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Hermione September 14, 2011 03:26PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past (Edited)

David Lubman November 16, 2011 09:39AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 14, 2011 09:37AM

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WVK September 14, 2011 10:55AM

Moderation Note

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 12:19PM

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Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

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Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer October 28, 2011 01:27PM

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WVK October 29, 2011 09:37AM

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WVK October 27, 2011 09:28AM

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Byrd October 27, 2011 12:41PM

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David Lubman November 08, 2011 06:16AM

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Hermione November 08, 2011 08:59AM

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David Lubman November 13, 2011 09:41PM

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Hermione November 14, 2011 09:57AM

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WVK November 14, 2011 11:27AM

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Hermione November 15, 2011 12:53PM

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WVK November 15, 2011 03:02PM

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WVK November 16, 2011 03:59PM

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Hermione November 16, 2011 05:11PM

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Katherine Reece November 16, 2011 06:33PM

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Hermione November 18, 2011 11:05AM

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WVK November 17, 2011 10:22AM

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Hermione November 18, 2011 12:05PM

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Katherine Reece November 20, 2011 11:55PM

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Jammer November 21, 2011 11:08AM

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David Lubman November 22, 2011 08:12AM

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Hermione November 22, 2011 10:16AM

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WVK November 22, 2011 11:39AM

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Hermione November 22, 2011 05:30PM

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WVK November 23, 2011 09:20AM

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bernard November 23, 2011 11:00AM

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WVK November 23, 2011 10:46AM

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Hermione November 23, 2011 12:14PM

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WVK November 23, 2011 01:15PM

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Hermione November 23, 2011 04:48PM

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WVK November 25, 2011 10:24AM

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WVK November 23, 2011 08:39PM

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bernard November 23, 2011 11:23PM

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WVK December 01, 2011 09:05PM

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Katherine Reece December 01, 2011 09:13PM

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WVK December 01, 2011 10:25PM

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WVK December 03, 2011 10:36AM

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WVK December 01, 2011 10:40PM

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David Lubman December 03, 2011 09:27PM

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Hermione December 04, 2011 04:34AM

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bernard December 04, 2011 11:38PM

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Jammer November 23, 2011 08:21AM

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Sirfiroth November 23, 2011 10:12AM

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David Lubman November 23, 2011 10:41PM

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Hermione November 24, 2011 10:18AM

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Katherine Reece November 14, 2011 12:06PM

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David Lubman November 14, 2011 08:40PM

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Katherine Reece November 16, 2011 01:40PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 19, 2011 08:04PM

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Katherine Reece November 20, 2011 01:13AM

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Byrd November 21, 2011 10:00PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 21, 2011 12:00AM

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Hermione November 21, 2011 05:06PM

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Hermione September 14, 2011 03:05AM

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WVK September 14, 2011 08:41AM

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bernard December 04, 2011 11:57PM

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WVK December 05, 2011 11:52AM

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bernard December 05, 2011 12:49PM

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WVK December 05, 2011 10:16PM

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bernard December 06, 2011 12:22AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman December 06, 2011 04:06AM

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David Lubman December 06, 2011 11:41PM

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Lee Olsen December 07, 2011 10:00AM

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David Lubman December 07, 2011 09:07PM

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Greg Reeder December 07, 2011 10:26PM

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Katherine Reece December 10, 2011 12:12PM

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bernard December 10, 2011 02:19AM

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Hermione December 10, 2011 05:00AM

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WVK December 06, 2011 11:29AM

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bernard December 08, 2011 11:54AM

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WVK December 08, 2011 03:45PM

Moderator Note

Katherine Reece December 10, 2011 12:15PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg September 15, 2011 08:05AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 15, 2011 02:28PM

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Jammer September 13, 2011 01:36PM

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Byrd October 30, 2011 11:18AM



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