WVK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bernard Wrote:
>
> > Are you claiming that a handclap in front of
> the
> > TofW produces a QUETZAL chirp? The Video
> certainly
> > did not produce the same chirp as the
> Castillo
> > when the guide clapped his hand.
>
> I am not aware of a video that captures the sound
> of the chirp
> from the TofW. My recollection is that it was
> similar
> in character to El Castillo.

Look at the video you posted. The guide also claps his hands in front of the T of W-- no chirp and no serpent hiss is produced

>
> > One of the big points made by scholars about
> Chichen Itza
> >is the notable change in how religion was
> practiced as evidenced
> > by the change in architecture. The scholars
> interpret this
> >as follows: The Central Mexican model was a
> radical departure--
> >in Central Mexico elite warrior orders (the
> Eagles and Jaguars)
> >participated in the rituals-- thus requiring
> a space filled
> >with participants i.e. the one story roofed
> structure with pillars
> >supporting the roof.
>
> So the evidence for such ceremony is that this
> style of architecture existed?

No, the evidence is that we know what kind of ceremony went on in Tula in the building that the Mercado copied. We know of the existence in Central Mexico of the elite Jaguar and Eagle orders and we see evidence of this at Chichen Itza. We also know that the religion at Chichen was a big change from Classical Maya, in a large part because it involved many more people actively involved and therefore the kind of temple had to be different. As I said, you need to read much more widely about Mesoamerican worldview, culture and religion-- not just troll for snippets to support your hypothesis.

>
> The evidence for the ceremony I suggested is the
> rattlesnake/bird
> (quetzal) sound created by the architecture, the
> feathered
> rattlesnake piers that are part of the
> architecture and the related
> cultural associations.

This is purely your ethnocentric imagination-- an ad hoc attempt to keep on supporting the hypothesis. You have absolutely no evidence from Maya sources for such a ceremony, or for the idea that "serpent flutter whispers" meant anything to the Maya.

Further, there would not be any such "flutter" when the building was filled with people.I found the following in a master's thesis

Archaeoacoustic Analysis
Techniques A study based on a model of the Maya Temples I and
II in the North Plaza, Tikal, Guatemala

An essay submitted in partial fulfilment of the requirements for the M.Phil
examination in Environmental Design in Architecture, 2003.
Emma Toogood, Peterhouse

"Absorption is rated on a scale between zero and one, where zero is highly reflective (no sound absorbed; which is never fully realised) and one equals complete absorption. Therefore, the worst absorbers are the best reflectors.

Audiences are great absorbers of sound (with a coefficient of 0.96 per square meter20)
According to Sabine, in Bagenal “Planning for Good Acoustics” pg.388."

Thus, when Chichen Itza was populated there was NO serpent sound in ceremonies at the Mercado.




>
> > No way in hell that you get a serpent flutter
> from
> > a handclap in a roofed structure filled with
> > worshippers. You are just resorting to ad
> hoc
> > arguments with no evidence.
> See above for evidence.
>
> Is there any reason why this structure couldn't be
> used for both forms
> of ceremony?

Yes, since your ceremony is completely invented.
Bernard
>
> WVK
>