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May 6, 2024, 2:20 pm UTC    
December 07, 2011 09:07PM
Lee Olsen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >David Lubman Wrote:
--------------------------------------------------

> > My informal finding? Chirps may be heard as few as 4-8 stairs. I'll bet this
> > experiment has been done before and probably better, and resides somewhere
> > in the psychoacoustics literature.

>"This wall at the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab produces unusual chirping echoes
> when I clap nearby. Berkeley professor Frank Crawford pointed out the phenomenon
> in a short note > to the American Journal of Physics in 1969. The wall acts as an
> acoustic diffraction grating, separating out the different frequencies of sound that
> go into a handclap."

Thanks Lee! I believe that Professor Crawford’s explanation is correct. My explanation specific to the Kukulkan pyramid staircase was developed later and independently (1999).

Others also have solved the staircase diffraction problem. My favorite is by a 3rd year undergraduate physics major at Bowdoin College in Maine. She made quite a hit at the college with her term paper! Her title (from memory) "how to make a staircase chirp like a bird"

I’m also credited for a chunk of the solution in Jearl Walker’s “Flying Circus of Physics” – an underground favorite of mathematical physics junkies. I'd guess that most physics professors have this book. I can’t find my copy, but the book index on Amazon’s website contents lists “ 3.65 Musical echoes from stairs and fences, p 172.”

My earlier work employed “picket fence effect”, which is better known in optical physics than acoustics, and is very simple. It predicts chirped echo frequency vs. time correctly, as well as the presence and frequency glide of harmonics. It is very useful for demonstrating the psychoacoustic effects. Such as:

"How can a sequence of impulses be perceived as a smoothly gliding tone?"

Students need only create and auralize a *.wav file of the impulse sequence to hear it
for themselves.

On Amazon's “Flying Circus table of contents ” I just noticed that the next entry is:

“3.66 SHORT STORY - Echoes from ancient structures, p 173”.

I didn’t remember that. I wonder if it is related. Amazon shows a copyright 2007 edition. My misplaced edition could be older.

I told the Bowdoin College student that the chirped echo problem can be solved by diffraction. But can be solved more accurately and completely using impulse response (IR) methods. IR methods employ the convolution theorem of linear system theory. IR methods have important practical and theoretical benefits over simple diffraction.
They are more complete and accurate. Unlike the simple diffraction solution, IR methods precisely account for echo spectrum. Most importantly given the IR, echoes of any other sound can easily be simulated (e.g., voice or ethnic sound instruments).

The IR of the Kukulkan pyramid is written as a summation of 91 terms, one for each step. This solution was first given publicly in 2002 at an acoustical conference in Cancun, Mexico. I provided analytical, graphical and sound simulation results, and explained its many benefits over the diffraction solution. Details are shown in my Acoustics 08 paper [intellagence.eu.com]

Archaeoacoustic use of IR methodology has since gained new practitioners. The IR of standing ruins (or intact structures) can be quickly captured on-site with sophisticated and increasingly affordable audio techniques. As reported in the August 2010 New Scientist, British workers did this at Stonehenge, and at an alleged full Stonehenge replica in Washington State.

My use at Kukulkan was different in that the impulse response of the original staircase construction was calculated (rather than captured on site) from reports of its original dimensions and materials.

Given the fame in the popular press, and the interest Kukulkan pyramid's chirping staircase has generated in the physics world, does it seem odd that mesoamericanists haven't looked into its archaeology as well?
Subject Author Posted

Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 08, 2011 12:09PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione September 11, 2011 11:01AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 11, 2011 11:46AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg September 11, 2011 09:14PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 11, 2011 11:54PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 12, 2011 10:57AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 12, 2011 03:44PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 12, 2011 08:05PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 13, 2011 04:27PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 13, 2011 07:54PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 13, 2011 08:35PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 14, 2011 10:04AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 12:16PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 14, 2011 01:27PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 05:20PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 07:25PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 15, 2011 10:07AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 15, 2011 04:40PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 16, 2011 10:58AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece September 16, 2011 12:25PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 16, 2011 02:47PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard September 13, 2011 08:45PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past (Edited)

WVK September 14, 2011 09:05AM

Moderation note

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 12:18PM

Re: Moderation note

WVK September 14, 2011 01:12PM

Re: Moderation note

Hermione September 14, 2011 03:26PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past (Edited)

David Lubman November 16, 2011 09:39AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 14, 2011 09:37AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 14, 2011 10:55AM

Moderation Note

Katherine Reece September 14, 2011 12:19PM

Re: Moderation Note

WVK September 14, 2011 01:09PM

Re: Moderation Note

Hermione September 14, 2011 03:22PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 15, 2011 11:35AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece October 19, 2011 08:48PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 20, 2011 07:40PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece October 20, 2011 10:03PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 25, 2011 12:19PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd October 25, 2011 11:16PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 26, 2011 10:12AM

Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer October 28, 2011 01:27PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 28, 2011 07:47PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard October 28, 2011 08:28PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 29, 2011 09:37AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard October 29, 2011 10:12AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 29, 2011 12:51PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer October 29, 2011 07:31AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard October 26, 2011 11:48AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 26, 2011 01:50PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard October 26, 2011 03:47PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 26, 2011 07:31PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard October 26, 2011 08:20PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 27, 2011 09:28AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd October 27, 2011 12:41PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 27, 2011 01:53PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd October 28, 2011 01:07PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 28, 2011 12:08PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd October 28, 2011 01:15PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 28, 2011 03:22PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK October 30, 2011 10:09AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 08, 2011 06:16AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 08, 2011 08:59AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 13, 2011 09:41PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 14, 2011 09:57AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 14, 2011 11:27AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 15, 2011 12:53PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 15, 2011 03:02PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 16, 2011 03:59PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 16, 2011 05:11PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece November 16, 2011 06:33PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 16, 2011 08:10PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 18, 2011 11:05AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 17, 2011 10:22AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 18, 2011 11:07AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 18, 2011 12:05PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece November 20, 2011 11:55PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer November 21, 2011 11:08AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 22, 2011 08:12AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 22, 2011 10:16AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 22, 2011 11:39AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 22, 2011 05:30PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 23, 2011 09:20AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard November 23, 2011 11:00AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 23, 2011 12:45PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 23, 2011 10:46AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 23, 2011 12:14PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 23, 2011 01:15PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 23, 2011 04:48PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 25, 2011 10:24AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK November 23, 2011 08:39PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard November 23, 2011 11:23PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 01, 2011 09:05PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece December 01, 2011 09:13PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 01, 2011 10:25PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 03, 2011 10:36AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 01, 2011 10:40PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman December 03, 2011 09:27PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione December 04, 2011 04:34AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 04, 2011 11:38PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece December 08, 2011 12:01PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione December 02, 2011 04:53PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 22, 2011 08:17PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 23, 2011 05:27AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer November 23, 2011 08:21AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Sirfiroth November 23, 2011 10:12AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer November 23, 2011 04:41PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 23, 2011 10:41PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 24, 2011 10:18AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece November 14, 2011 12:06PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 14, 2011 08:40PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece November 16, 2011 01:40PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 19, 2011 08:04PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece November 20, 2011 01:13AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd November 21, 2011 10:00PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman November 21, 2011 12:00AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard November 21, 2011 12:48PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione November 21, 2011 05:06PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione September 14, 2011 03:05AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 14, 2011 08:41AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 04, 2011 11:57PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 05, 2011 11:52AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 05, 2011 12:49PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 05, 2011 10:16PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 06, 2011 12:22AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman December 06, 2011 04:06AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 06, 2011 03:00PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman December 06, 2011 11:41PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Lee Olsen December 07, 2011 10:00AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

David Lubman December 07, 2011 09:07PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Greg Reeder December 07, 2011 10:26PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Reece December 10, 2011 12:12PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 10, 2011 02:19AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Hermione December 10, 2011 05:00AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 06, 2011 11:29AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 06, 2011 12:09PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 07, 2011 08:53PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 08, 2011 01:00AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 08, 2011 10:32AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

bernard December 08, 2011 11:54AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK December 08, 2011 03:45PM

Moderator Note

Katherine Reece December 10, 2011 12:15PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg September 15, 2011 08:05AM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

WVK September 15, 2011 02:28PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Jammer September 13, 2011 01:36PM

Re: Archaeoacoustics: Hearing the past

Byrd October 30, 2011 11:18AM



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