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May 25, 2024, 7:59 pm UTC    
September 06, 2005 01:51AM
Charlotte,

You really need to check your sources. Much of this information is wrong.

Charlotte Masuda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Hopi tradition tells that once upon an age
> there was a giant continent named "Kasskara" in
> the Pacific which was their former home. In those
> days their teachers were the Kachinas who were
> other-wordly, and came from the "alliane of 12
> planets". They came on flying saucers, which is
> probably where the notion of aliens building the
> Pyramids comes from, but the rock drawing of the
> Hopi of "Kasskara and the 7 worlds" is a simple
> curved line, which they call a protective shield,
> on which sits a women, mother earth, under the
> line an arrow. The Native Indians usually
> symbolize time by an arrow.

Number one, there were only three worlds for the Hopi and these worlds were all caves from which they ascended up from before reaching this world. There is no giant continent in their lore before this world...just some caves. There are no ufos in Hopi lore and most Hopi would be pretty upset to read this.

>
> Kasskara was the 3rd of 7 worlds presided over by
> the god "Taiowa" who lived upon high and who
> created humanity. Concurrent with Kasskara there
> existed a smaller island inhabited by a warlike
> people, called "Talawaichiqua", on the other side
> of the world which sunk at once into the ocean,
> whereas Kasskara sank slowly.

Dawa is the "god's" name and he is the sun spirit of the Hopi. Dawa did not create "humanity" per se. The Hopi began as an insectlike people, then they became covered in fur like bears and wolves in the second "world" cave. When they reached the third world, they had become people. No islands and no continents save for the forming of the continent by Spider Grandmother's two sons.

> The first world was destroyed by fire because its
> people became wicked, but the Hopi survived this
> destruction.

The first world was too small for the Hopi and Tawa sent them Spider Grandmother to lead them to the next world because they argued all the time.

>
> The second world called "Topka" was destroyed by
> ice. At that time the earth turned over several
> times and the poles were reversed completely, not
> only half, because it would have caused to much
> damage which was not the intention of the creator.
> When the ancestors of the Hopi were savely
> underground, "Sethhuknang", the creator god of
> twins, ordered them to leave their position at the
> poles where they kept the world in equilibruim,
> upon which the earth convulced like drunk and
> turned over twice. Mountains fell into the sea
> with a terrible noise, oceans and seas flooded the
> lands,and the earth froze as it whirled through
> cold and lifeless space.

I haven't ever heard of teh earth being tossed about. The Hopi still lived in caves in the second world but, again, they left them voluntarily as they became too crowded and unhappy.

>
> The Hopi survived both destructions and came to
> the 3rd world, Kasskara. At that time Kasskara
> was above water and the Americas under water, and
> as America gradually surfaced Kasskara sank
> slowly. Both, the people of Kasskara and
> Talawaichiqua had great knowledge and technical
> skills and the arts, the difference being that the
> Kasskara, being pacifists, applied these for the
> good of mankind, whereas the Talaweichiqua used
> the for war and thereby became guilty, hence their
> island sank at once.

The book I have relating Hopi lore, particuliarly creation lore, does not have anything about a flood destroying the third world. However, the Navajo, who share some themes with the pueblo tribes in their stories, do have a flood myth and they also ascend into this world by climbing a reed...just like the Hopi. It is important to note that in the Navajo flood story, Coyote is the source of the flood because he inadvertantly stole and decided to keep Water Monster's babies after winning Water Monster's skin gambling. War was not the cause. Just a very naughty Coyote. In the Hopi version, the people are divided between those who are evil and those who are good after being led astray by sorcers. The good ones go up to the fourth world, leaving behind the bad. The fate of the ones left behind is not mentioned.

> The Hopi tell that they were in communication with
> the revered Kachinas, who were corporeal beings
> but can be invisible and came from a distant
> planet on ships of magnetic properties, since the
> first world. Above the Kachinas are the gods, and
> above them is the creator. According to "White
> Bear", the Hopi have three schools of Kachina: the
> first are teachers, the second oversees the
> continuance of mankind, the third guard the laws.

Kachinas are spirits--not aliens. They often embody parts of nature and sometimes, boogey man type of creations to keep the Hopi in line. I actually collected several kachinas myself (the wooden versions--not the spirits). They can be bear, turkey, eagle, hawk...the list goes on and on. They are certainly not aliens.

>
> The gradual sinking of Kasskara enabled the Hopi
> to migrate to the emerging Americas which was the
> original second world, Topka. It became
> "Toowakachi", the fourth world. The Hindus confirm
> this report.

A hole in the sky of the third world and a reed enabled the Hopi to migrate into the fourth world.

>
> According to the Rosicruicians also, California,
> with its unique plants and trees, and fossils, not
> securely attached to the mainland and it alone
> moving nothward, is a remnant of the original
> Topka, the second world, territory the Indians
> rightly claim for themselves, and it is joked
> hereabouts that California is not just another
> "country" in the United States, but that we here
> live on another planet, as can easily be seen on
> me.

The Rosicrusians have zero to do with the Hopi and probably know even less of their lore than the actual Hopi themselves. What the Hopi do say is that they have brothers in the west who were left behind when they moved from the first and second worlds. A great deal is passed around about native lores that is so completely different from the actual stories. All it takes is one person to adapt information for whatever purpose and it spreads like wildfire.

Try reading this: [www.hopi.nsn.us]

This is from the Hopi Nation's site itself and tells their own story. As you can see, it is infinitely simpler than the above version and completely lacking in spaceships.

Stephanie






In every man there is something wherein I may learn of him, and in that I am his pupil.--Ralph Waldo Emerson
Subject Author Posted

Atlantis of the Hopi

Charlotte Masuda September 05, 2005 11:16AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Marduk September 05, 2005 12:00PM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Stephanie September 06, 2005 01:51AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Roxana September 07, 2005 11:26AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Charlotte Masuda September 08, 2005 07:41AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Stephanie September 08, 2005 10:56AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Marduk September 08, 2005 11:15AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Charlotte Masuda September 09, 2005 09:14AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Charlotte Masuda September 09, 2005 08:41AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Stephanie September 09, 2005 10:38AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Marduk September 10, 2005 08:14AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Marduk September 10, 2005 08:16AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Roxana Cooper September 09, 2005 10:22AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Stephanie September 09, 2005 10:39AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Charlotte Masuda September 10, 2005 09:03AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Marduk September 10, 2005 10:38AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Charlotte Masuda September 12, 2005 08:26AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Marduk September 12, 2005 09:37AM

Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

kenuchelover September 11, 2005 12:49AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 12, 2005 09:28AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Marduk September 12, 2005 09:41AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 13, 2005 09:18AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Marduk September 13, 2005 12:56PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

kenuchelover September 15, 2005 01:39AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 15, 2005 08:19AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 15, 2005 09:55AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 16, 2005 10:06AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Stephanie September 15, 2005 11:04AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Marduk September 15, 2005 11:33AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

kenuchelover September 15, 2005 12:07PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Marduk September 15, 2005 12:19PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Stephanie September 15, 2005 12:38PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

kenuchelover September 15, 2005 01:32PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Marduk September 15, 2005 02:34PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Stephanie September 15, 2005 02:36PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

kenuchelover September 15, 2005 04:11PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Marduk September 15, 2005 04:28PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Stephanie September 15, 2005 05:11PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

kenuchelover September 15, 2005 06:28PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Stephanie September 15, 2005 02:35PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Stephanie September 15, 2005 12:37PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 16, 2005 08:13AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Stephanie September 16, 2005 10:59AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 17, 2005 07:17AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Stephanie September 18, 2005 01:48PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 19, 2005 07:19AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 19, 2005 09:35AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 20, 2005 08:30AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 21, 2005 08:46AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 22, 2005 09:28AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 23, 2005 08:51AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 24, 2005 09:48AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 26, 2005 08:59AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 27, 2005 09:17AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Charlotte Masuda September 28, 2005 09:06AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Marduk October 13, 2005 09:27PM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Stephanie September 12, 2005 10:27AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

kenuchelover September 15, 2005 01:09AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

Roxana Cooper September 15, 2005 10:05AM

Re: Uh, like hell the Hopi say this!

kenuchelover September 15, 2005 12:09PM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Charlotte Masuda September 14, 2005 09:35AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Roxana September 15, 2005 12:19PM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Charlotte Masuda September 17, 2005 09:14AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Charlotte Masuda September 25, 2005 10:00AM

Re: Atlantis of the Hopi

Charlotte Masuda September 29, 2005 09:12AM



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