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May 16, 2024, 4:49 am UTC    
October 01, 2005 12:35PM
Quetzalcoatl (Aztec) was one of many names of the same God, others were
Gukumatz,the Quich, Nine Wind, and Kukulcan. the earliest known reference to the plumed serpent God is Toltec, though there is a school of thought that says the Olmecs worshipped the plumed serpent.

Quetzalcoatl was a man, king, God and demi god, depending on which legend you go by. According to legend, Quetzalcoatl was involved in the creation and destruction of the Four Suns, a succession of eras and or worlds. At the end of the Fourth Sun, Quetzalcoatl was forced to flee the city of Cholula for Tlapallan.

one wonders if the Incas were influenced by the Aztec or Toltec, considering the parallel's between Varroche and the Plumed serpent legends. particularly "then he went to the sea coast. Thereupon he fashioned a raft of serpents. When he had arranged (the raft), there he placed himself, as if it were his boat. Then he set off going across the sea. No one knows how he came to arrive there at Tlapallan." (Florentine Codex)"

anway here is the reason stated by Cortes for being considered the Plumed serpent.

"For a long time we have known from the writings of our ancestors that neither I [Motecuzoma], nor any of those who dwell in this land, are natives of it, but foreigners who came from a very distant land and likewise we know that a chieftain, of whom they were all vassals, brought our people to this region. And he returned to his native land and after many years came again, by which time all those who had remained were married to native women and had built up the villages and raised children. And when he wished to lead them away again they would not go, nor even admit him as their chief; and so he departed. And we have always held that those who descended from him would come and conquer this land and take us as their vassals. So because of the place from which you claim to come, namely from where the sun rises, and the thing you tell us of the great Lord or king who sent you here, we believe and are certain that his is our natural Lord, especially as you say that he has known of us for some time." (Hernan Cortés, Letters from Mexico, translated by A.R. Pagden, (New York: Grossman Publishers, 1971), 85-60.)

Torquemada expounded on this, but it is unknown whether he based the passage on any actual Texts.

"He said of those who dwelt in the city of Cholula, they held for certain that in coming times were to come form the Sea towards the rising sun, white men with white beards, like him, and that they would be Lords of these lands, and that they were their brothers. And in this way the Indians always awaited the fulfillment of this prophecy, and when they saw the Christians, they called them gods, and brothers of Quetzalcoatl." (Torquemada, 1943, 2:51 and Mendieta, 1971, 92-93.)

there is however still skepticism in academia that Cortes was ever really considered a God by the Aztec.

"As to the well-aired notion of Cortés being supposed to have been the god Quetzalcoatl returning, the suspect first portion of Book 12 contains the only such references in the Nahuatl corpus (to the best of my knowledge)." James Lockhart, The Nahuas After the Conquest, (Stanford: Stanford University Press, 1992), 20.

regardless of what I may or may not believe, there was enough justification for the Spanish to absorb and rewrite native myths and traditions. In point of Fact it was SOP for the Catholic Church to do just so. It allowed political and religious control and acceptance by the native populations.

though I am Sure I have read References to the plumed serpent god being white, with blond hair. I can not in all fairness say I can locate them at this date, nor can I vouch for the veracity of the references I saw so long ago.

Subject Author Posted

Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 27, 2005 03:44PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 27, 2005 05:53PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 27, 2005 06:01PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 27, 2005 06:26PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 27, 2005 07:36PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 08:52AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Pete Clarke September 28, 2005 09:06AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Warwick L Nixon September 28, 2005 09:21AM

excellant observation

Warwick L Nixon September 28, 2005 09:20AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 10:19AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Warwick L Nixon September 28, 2005 10:53AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 11:04AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Warwick L Nixon September 28, 2005 11:26AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

bernard September 28, 2005 11:54AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 12:24PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Warwick L Nixon September 28, 2005 12:26PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 12:38PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 12:41PM

for Anna

Warwick L Nixon September 28, 2005 12:57PM

Re: for Anna

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 01:00PM

Re: for Anna

Warwick L Nixon September 28, 2005 01:05PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 01:13PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Jon K September 29, 2005 11:03AM

for Mr Pyatt

Warwick L Nixon September 29, 2005 11:09AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 29, 2005 11:33AM

correction and ....cough..... mistake LOL

Jon K September 29, 2005 12:30PM

no Windmills in Mexico

Warwick L Nixon September 29, 2005 12:40PM

Re: correction and ....cough..... mistake LOL

Katherine Reece September 29, 2005 12:46PM

citations

Anthony September 29, 2005 01:05PM

Re: citations

Jon K September 29, 2005 01:09PM

Please

Warwick L Nixon September 29, 2005 01:11PM

Re: citations

Katherine Reece September 29, 2005 01:11PM

Re: correction and ....cough..... mistake LOL

Jon K October 01, 2005 12:35PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 12:12PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Warwick L Nixon September 28, 2005 12:16PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 12:39PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 12:20PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 12:40PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 12:43PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 01:12PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 05:12PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 05:50PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 06:14PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 06:33PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 06:35PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 06:49PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

bernard September 28, 2005 07:04PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 08:29PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 08:41PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 08:45PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 08:58PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

bernard September 28, 2005 09:08PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 09:20PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 09:22PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Marduk September 28, 2005 09:39PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 09:51PM

Score card

Hans September 28, 2005 11:18PM

Re: Score card

Katherine Reece September 28, 2005 11:24PM

Re: Score card

Hans September 29, 2005 03:19AM

sniff

Warwick L Nixon September 29, 2005 09:22AM

Re: sniff

Hans September 30, 2005 12:45AM

Re: sniff

Warwick L Nixon September 30, 2005 11:09AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Hermione September 29, 2005 03:20AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Warwick L Nixon September 29, 2005 09:28AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Warwick L Nixon September 29, 2005 09:38AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Stephen Tonkin September 30, 2005 12:23PM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Hermione September 29, 2005 06:31AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Pacal September 29, 2005 11:01AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Warwick L Nixon September 29, 2005 11:04AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Pacal September 29, 2005 10:34AM

Re: Marduk ... re Nasca

Anthony September 29, 2005 10:50AM

Clam's Eye View

Warwick L Nixon September 29, 2005 10:57AM

just a note

Jon K September 29, 2005 12:45PM

Re: just a note

bernard September 29, 2005 01:57PM

Re: just a note

Sam September 29, 2005 02:14PM

Re: just a note

bernard September 29, 2005 02:34PM

Re: just a note

Anthony September 29, 2005 03:56PM

Re: just a note

Pacal September 29, 2005 02:10PM

Re: just a note

bernard September 29, 2005 03:34PM

Re: just a note

Pacal September 30, 2005 02:53PM

Re: just a note

bernard September 30, 2005 03:57PM

Re: just a note

Pacal October 03, 2005 06:09PM

Re: just a note

Jon K October 05, 2005 12:55PM

Re: just a note

Pacal October 05, 2005 04:58PM



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