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May 8, 2024, 4:38 pm UTC    
September 07, 2007 09:22AM
Ritva Kurittu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Care to share some of that "homework"?


I don't have my notes available, so the answer will have to be "no", for now.


> Before you
> do, though, I'd like to point out, that from the
> end of the 4th to the later part of the 5th the
> time lapse is only 70 years.


Ah, but we aren't really talking about the end of the Fourth for the Giza structures, are we? In fact, the one that is most heavily (and erroneously) linked to Osiris belongs to the second king of the Fourth Dynasty: Khufu.

And so, again, let's put the dates in a relative context:

Chronology:

Dynasty IV: 2630 - 2524 BCE Khufu: 2606-2583

Dynasty V: 2524 - 2400 BCE

First probable appearance of Osiris: 2458-2430
First definitely dated appearance: 2430-2400


[www.cofc.edu]


These are, of course, only relative dates. They can be stretched a few years either way, but it is the space in between them that matters. So, from 2583 BCE (the latest date for Khufu) to 2458 BCE (the earliest date of attestation of Osiris), we have a span of 125 years.


Now, we are discussing the tomb of Hetemra, specifically, and this one is not an exception to the timeline above. Its inscriptions, grammar and content land it far closer to Unas than to Userkaf. That is more than the 125 years quoted above, and still almost a century after the end of the Old Kingdom.

During this time, we have a great fusion of the old and new religions (again, I reference David's book on the subject). The texts that include Osiris could not possibly pre-date the Fourth Dynasty (grammar and such) and the peaceful coexistence of older texts with newer texts is the hallmark of the era in which we finally find Osiris as part of the funerary customs of the kings as embodied in the PYramid Texts.

This is not a half-bad summation of the time in question:

Quote

The rituals of burial and passage into the afterlife were only used for the pharaohs until around the sixth dynasty. At this point, rights were extended to the pharaohs’ immediate family and the aristocracy. When this dynasty fell around 2250 B.C., this practice was used more and more by the common people as well. Until the Osiris myth came along, there was only the sun-god myth for burial and passage. This was not suited for the common person, as they did not even have access to the inner sanctuaries of Ra’s temples. The cult of the sun-god explained present day politics and was tied up in laws of ownership and inheritance of power and property. The Osiris cult appealed to the common man’s emotions and provided a way for him to believe that he, too, could have eternal life.

As the cult spread, Osiris took over more and more of Ra’s functions. Osiris became associated again with agriculture, as was Ra before Ra became so much a puppet of politics. Osiris eventually absorbed the power of Ra over the Nile, the floods, the vegetation. This was Osiris in his role a symbol for resurrection. Just as he was the god of the afterlife, so was he the god over the regeneration of non-human life on earth.
[www.touregypt.net]

Every role Osiris plays in later Egyptian history is already held by a different, but still evidenced deity during the Fourth Dynasty. There are no demonstrated relationships between evidenced gods that could push Osiris back into the picture. Frankly, if you had asked Khufu if he'd ever heard of "Asar", he would probably ask you back, "What nome is he from?"


Anthony

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.
Subject Author Posted

Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Chris Tedder September 05, 2007 10:48AM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Hermione September 05, 2007 11:08AM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

rich September 05, 2007 03:06PM

Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 05, 2007 04:47PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

rich September 05, 2007 10:34PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 06, 2007 08:39AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 06, 2007 11:49AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 06, 2007 12:56PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 06, 2007 02:32PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 06, 2007 02:36PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 06, 2007 02:39PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 07, 2007 09:22AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 07, 2007 02:40PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 07, 2007 02:53PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 07, 2007 03:47PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 07, 2007 07:01PM

Note to sub-thread

Hermione September 10, 2007 09:10AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Chris Tedder September 06, 2007 01:34PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 06, 2007 01:54PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 06, 2007 02:37PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 07, 2007 06:55AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 07, 2007 02:50PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Rick Baudé September 07, 2007 09:46PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 09, 2007 11:58AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 09, 2007 06:15PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Rick Baudé September 09, 2007 08:19PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 09, 2007 09:19PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 10, 2007 08:26AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Lee September 10, 2007 09:58AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 10, 2007 10:14AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Hermione September 10, 2007 10:40AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Lee September 10, 2007 11:12AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Lee September 10, 2007 11:22AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 10, 2007 09:05PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Rick Baudé September 10, 2007 10:28PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Hermione September 12, 2007 05:10AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 12, 2007 10:40AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Hermione September 12, 2007 12:02PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Warwick L Nixon September 12, 2007 07:58PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 12, 2007 09:05PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Warwick L Nixon September 12, 2007 09:24PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 13, 2007 10:38AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Warwick L Nixon September 13, 2007 11:03AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 13, 2007 11:15AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Warwick L Nixon September 13, 2007 12:17PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 13, 2007 01:15PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Warwick L Nixon September 14, 2007 12:41PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 14, 2007 02:03PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Warwick L Nixon September 15, 2007 11:17AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Chris Tedder September 14, 2007 05:08PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Warwick L Nixon September 15, 2007 11:24AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

cladking September 12, 2007 05:33PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Warwick L Nixon September 12, 2007 08:02PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 12, 2007 09:12PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

MJ Thomas September 10, 2007 02:26AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Warwick L Nixon September 15, 2007 11:41AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 06, 2007 11:47AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 06, 2007 12:55PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 06, 2007 03:18PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 07, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Ritva Kurittu September 07, 2007 03:30PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Anthony September 07, 2007 06:56PM

Re: Questions and a possible correction

Chris Tedder September 06, 2007 04:07PM

"Great Seer", and "Much" versus "Solid" evidence

Anthony September 07, 2007 10:42AM

Re: "Great Seer", and "Much" versus "Solid" evidence

Ritva Kurittu September 07, 2007 02:34PM

Re: "Great Seer", and "Much" versus "Solid" evidence

Anthony September 07, 2007 02:41PM

Re: "Great Seer", and "Much" versus "Solid" evidence

Ritva Kurittu September 07, 2007 02:59PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

rich September 06, 2007 10:11AM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Ritva Kurittu September 06, 2007 11:52AM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Greg Reeder September 06, 2007 01:07PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Lee September 06, 2007 01:15PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Anthony September 07, 2007 10:43AM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Ritva Kurittu September 06, 2007 02:46PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Ritva Kurittu September 06, 2007 11:55AM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Jeff van Hout September 06, 2007 03:59PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Chris Tedder September 06, 2007 04:28PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Ritva Kurittu September 06, 2007 08:10PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Chris Tedder September 07, 2007 07:41AM

I couldn't agree more

Anthony September 07, 2007 10:49AM

Re: I couldn't agree more

Lee September 07, 2007 12:25PM

Re: I couldn't agree more

Hermione September 07, 2007 12:44PM

Re: I couldn't agree more

Lee September 07, 2007 12:50PM

"Greatest of Seers" = "Seers of the Greatest"

Anthony September 07, 2007 01:37PM

Re: "Greatest of Seers" = "Seers of the Greatest"

Ritva Kurittu September 07, 2007 03:44PM

Re: "Greatest of Seers" = "Seers of the Greatest"

Anthony September 07, 2007 07:00PM

Re: I couldn't agree more

Ritva Kurittu September 07, 2007 03:41PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Jeff van Hout September 07, 2007 10:15AM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Ritva Kurittu September 07, 2007 03:36PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Lee September 13, 2007 01:35PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Ritva Kurittu September 13, 2007 02:38PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Chris Tedder September 13, 2007 03:46PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Ritva Kurittu September 13, 2007 09:16PM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Chris Tedder September 14, 2007 04:44AM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Lee September 14, 2007 11:34AM

Re: Geb and Shu in Dyn 3?

Ritva Kurittu September 14, 2007 02:10PM



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