Doug M Wrote:
-
>
> None of you have shown me how the Rhind papyrus
> had anything to do with magic. Let's stick to
> that point. When you or your citations can show
> me how the math of the Rhind was supposed to be a
> magical invocation of the gods that could be
> recited in order to produce a result, then you
> will make sense. Otherwise, you aren't making
> absolutely any sense and you really sound quite
> odd. Saying magic can coexist with intellect does
> not mean that belief in magic equals intellect.
> Sorry, but that is fundamentally wrong.

This is a total strawman. No one here as claimed that the Rhind papyrus has magical aspects. We (I) have repeatedly told you that processes over which humans have control and few uncertainties do not involve magic in any society so you can get off the Rhind mantra. You keep making a fundamental logical error, the excluded middle, Its the same thing that creationists do: "Its either pure chance or God did it." Here you claim a total dichotomy "its either magic or it is purely secular" NO. it can be religion-- i.e. belief and appeals to a supernatural or supernaturals.

When Anthony asks for citations, he wants something like this to support your assertions.

Geraldine Pinch 1994. Magic in Ancient Egypt Austin: University of Texas Press

Remember my analysis of using the "law of Contact" in magic and the effluvia of Hawaiian royalty? Here is the Egyptian counterpart:

Pinch
p. 50. “Anything that came from the king’s person was thought to be embued with heka. It therefore had to be preserved, or else disposed of very carefully. Presumably the king’s nail or hair clippings could have been used to work magic against him, as the sun god’s saliva was used to poison him in the story of the secret name of Ra.”

and further the use of religion and not magic (or perhaps in addition to magic and science)

Pinch
p. 136. “There was clearly some element of personal choice in the combination of medical, magical, and religious means resorted to in any specific case. In the fourteenth century BC, an artist called Nebra who worked at Deir-el-Medina set up a stela to thank the god Amun-Ra for healing his son.[BOM bolded] Doctors were available at Deir-el-Medina and there is evidence for the use of magic in this community, but when Debra’s son was at the point of death, the artist visited Karnak temple to appeal to Amun-Ra for help. In the stela inscription, Amun-Ra is described as a god “who listens to prayers.” Other deities who are given this epithet, such as Hathor and Toth, were also appealed to on behalf of the sick.”


and further:
John F. Nunn. 1996. Ancient Egyptian Medicine Norman: University of Oklahoma Press.

p. 96. In pharaonic times there was little distinction between magic and religion, supernatural influences were regarded as major controlling factors in the events of daily life. This included not only such phenomena as the movement of celestial bodies and the flooding of the Nile but also the causation of disease. [[b]BOM this is clearly religion and not magic[/b]]. . . If the cause of disease was thought to be supernatural, it was also logical [BOM that pesky intellectualism again] to look to the supernatural for its cure. This took many forms. Certain deities were invoked to prevent or cure diseases and attacks by dangerous animals. [[b]BOM religion not magic[/b]]. In addition, incantations were directly addressed to disease-demons, bidding them leave the body,[[b]BOM magic “bidding” = compelling[/b]
. . .
The cause of the illness would have been an important factor in the choice between conventional treatment and magic. In the case of trauma in particular, the cause was usually obvious, and it was often possible to predict the likely outcome. In contrast, the aetiology of internal disorders was usually unknown and the outcome often uncertain.[[b]BOM just like the example I gave you in my previous disregarded post, outcome uncertain = use magic and/or religion[/b]]. It is therefore not surprising that the remedies for trauma only rarely contain incantations, where as they are very common in the treatment of medical conditions.
. . .
There were a great many deities in ancient Egypt. Some were ambivalent toward disease, being involved in both causation and cure. However, others, were predominantly malevolent, believed to be capable of bringing misfortune and illness.. . Other Egyptian deities, Isis in particular, were predominantly benign with special powers and inclination to ward off evil, and to repair the damage caused by malign influences. Many Egyptian incantations concerned with healing invoke a benign deity, and the more powerful the better.[[b]BOM again religion not magic – incantations asking the gods for help.[/b]]
Bernard








Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2007 04:10PM by bernard.