Home of the The Hall of Ma'at on the Internet
Home
Discussion Forums
Papers
Authors
Web Links

May 11, 2024, 8:28 am UTC    
December 20, 2007 10:25PM
MJ:


Yours: "...This thread concerns the question of why Khufu didn’t build his pyramid on the higher ground at Giza – a question which naturally calls into play the question of whether or not there is a pan- or trans-generational geometry based plan at Giza.

Whether or not Khufu’s mortal remains were interred in the Great Pyramid is here immaterial..."

Good point re the remains, but who confirmed that G1 was built exclusively for Khufu and who can verify it built prior to G2? And what prevented all three at Giza being constructed simultaneously? Please...no hypothesis of kingship-power over all, including the next of kin...there's no evidence.

Yours: "...I wrote “(for whatever reason)” simply to avoid getting into discussions here about why Khufu chose the rock outcrop as the site for his pyramid.
For example, I think the Grotto was part of the reason whereas Anthony favours..."

The Grotto is one of your three statements supporting the reason for location, therefore you should explain in detail why Khufu elected to construct a monument containing over 2,500,000 cubic meters of stone directly on top of that "come-by-chance" hole...if that were the case.
Was Khufu initially satisfied with a simple mastaba...was the original design at Giza to include a pyramid like those before him...yes...no?

Fresh air had to be pumped into the lower section, while stale air was directed upward for one reason only; they built the descending passage !
And here is the problem: Why didn't they dig straight down and form the sub chamber only without the DP; it was unnecessary...right...wrong?

Also, if they were aware of the faults in the core material why didn’t it deter them from construction this pyramid? Had they forgotten...it was so soon after the "collapsing" Bent pyramid problem/theory claimed by archeologists?

Any construction engineer would have vetoed the location if they had known of these foundation problems. Instead, they plugged up the cavities with stone, indicating that they had to stay put and…suggesting that all three were being assembled from the same drawing simultaneously.


Your second point:
“…The large outcrop of rock that reduced the volume of blocks required (I have yet to do the maths on this to get a guesstimate of the volume saved)…”


a) G2 uses more of the natural hillside core material than G1.
b) If Khafree had elected, then he could have dug another 20 Rc deeper to maintain the identical base level as his father, and that would have reduced the stone requirement further...but he didn't.
c) You cannot do any math on this because you do not know the natural level of the hillside prior to construction.

Yours: “…Khufu was not expecting anybody – least of all a family member? – to build a pyramid “in the shadow of his own” (so to speak), and thus allowed practical considerations to over-ride any desire to build on higher but less easily adapted and developed ground. ..”

a) How do you know he was not expecting someone?
b) His choice of location is on the northern-most section of the area. Any further north-east and it would be hanging over the hillside and you know it !
c) The material for this pyramid was pulled up the main causeway (G1 doesn’t/didn’t have one) or mined at the quarry south of this causeway. IOW all of the materialfor G1 was haulled passed the location of G2.
Sorry to say but your logic is upsidedown.

Yours: “…I see Khufu’s son and immediate successor, Djedfre, locating his pyramid at Abu Roash, some 5 miles from Giza, as supporting my contention that his father was not expecting anybody to build a pyramid close to his…”

I see time running out for Khufu and sending his oldest son Djadfre to Abu Roash to overlook that project. A busy pyramid building family.

Yours: "...The base of Khufu’s pyramid is a near perfect square that is aligned very, very close to North. This could have been and therefore probably was achieved through the use of basic geometry..."

The accuracy in alignment with true north is within arc seconds of a degree and who can claim that Earth has not shifted since construction?
IOW...they may have built it "perfect" to north...not...very close.

The second point you have overlooked is the square of its base to all four sides; can you explain how it was accomplished? It had Petrie stumped, he makes note of that very point, and he used "advanced" geometry, trigonometry and logarithms...right?

Yours: "...the phenomenally accurate leveling of the sides at the base could have been achieved by the use of water-filled channels – whether this is how it was actually done is a matter of opinion. Given the AEs skills at irrigation I’d say it is most likely..."

Odd that you emphasize phenomenally accurate since this was the easiest of all measure to accomplish. Water leveling had been around since the beginning of civilization...!

The apex must also be considered:
Can you explain how they constructed 200+ courses, ending with the last course’s center point within a hand's width of true center?

Yours: "...I can even tell you what the intended dimensions were (all as a hypothesis, of course)..."

No...you have the dimensions...they cannot be adjusted...they are your bible !

I explained...I will prove...not hypothesize. There's already too many of those going around. Can you do likewise?

The story starts at the beginning...the Step pyramid.

Best.
Clive
Subject Author Posted

Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

MJ Thomas December 20, 2007 05:31AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Ronald December 20, 2007 07:12AM

Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Dave L December 20, 2007 07:27AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

MJ Thomas December 20, 2007 11:11AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Clive December 20, 2007 12:15PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 20, 2007 12:25PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Clive December 20, 2007 07:38PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 21, 2007 05:43AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Anthony December 21, 2007 06:42AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 21, 2007 07:35AM

Correcting your false statements

Anthony December 21, 2007 07:59AM

Re: Correcting your false statements

Scott Creighton December 21, 2007 08:16AM

Re: Correcting your false statements

Anthony December 21, 2007 08:24AM

Have to do better, Anthony - much better!

Scott Creighton December 21, 2007 08:52AM

Please don't attempt to paraphrase me

Anthony December 21, 2007 08:58AM

Re: Please don't attempt to paraphrase me

Scott Creighton December 21, 2007 09:15AM

Please don't attempt to paraphrase me II

Anthony December 21, 2007 09:20AM

Re: Please don't attempt to paraphrase me II

Scott Creighton December 21, 2007 09:34AM

*Moderation note*

Hermione December 21, 2007 09:56AM

Re: Correcting your false statements

Don Barone December 21, 2007 09:24AM

Re: Correcting your false statements

Anthony December 21, 2007 09:27AM

Re: Correcting your false statements

Don Barone December 21, 2007 11:30AM

Re: Correcting your false statements

Jammer December 21, 2007 02:18PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Joe_S December 23, 2007 02:43AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 23, 2007 07:46AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 23, 2007 12:31PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 23, 2007 01:06PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 23, 2007 07:43PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 24, 2007 02:57PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 25, 2007 09:22AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 27, 2007 04:11PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 27, 2007 04:47PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 27, 2007 05:02PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Chris Tedder December 27, 2007 05:29PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 27, 2007 05:47PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 28, 2007 12:21PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 12:30PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 28, 2007 12:48PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Ritva Kurittu December 28, 2007 03:06PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 28, 2007 03:58PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Ritva Kurittu December 28, 2007 04:37PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 29, 2007 10:27AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Ritva Kurittu December 29, 2007 12:27PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 30, 2007 02:23PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Ritva Kurittu January 01, 2008 02:01PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer January 02, 2008 10:40AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Ritva Kurittu January 02, 2008 05:10PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Rick Baudé January 03, 2008 12:34PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Ritva Kurittu January 03, 2008 12:42PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Rick Baudé January 03, 2008 02:17PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer January 03, 2008 01:49PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

cladking January 03, 2008 05:58PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

cladking December 28, 2007 04:56PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Joe_S December 24, 2007 03:04AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 24, 2007 07:27AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 24, 2007 07:47AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Don Barone December 24, 2007 08:07AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Don Barone December 24, 2007 07:55AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 24, 2007 08:22AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Don Barone December 24, 2007 08:35AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 24, 2007 08:55AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Don Barone December 24, 2007 09:16AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 24, 2007 09:28AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Don Barone December 24, 2007 10:47AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 24, 2007 11:54AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Joe_S December 25, 2007 02:50AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Don Barone December 25, 2007 02:06PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Joe_S December 27, 2007 02:06AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Scott Creighton December 27, 2007 03:06PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

MJ Thomas December 20, 2007 03:35PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Clive December 20, 2007 10:25PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

cladking December 20, 2007 11:06PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Clive December 21, 2007 04:00PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

MJ Thomas December 21, 2007 11:45AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 21, 2007 02:54PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Clive December 25, 2007 02:04PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 27, 2007 11:29AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Warwick L Nixon December 27, 2007 11:46AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 21, 2007 03:08PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Clive December 25, 2007 02:18PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Jammer December 27, 2007 11:25AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Warwick L Nixon December 27, 2007 11:58AM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Dave L December 20, 2007 01:57PM

Re: Pan generational does not equate to geometric layout

Joe_S December 23, 2007 02:39AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 20, 2007 07:33AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

MJ Thomas December 20, 2007 01:11PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Joe_S December 23, 2007 03:43AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 23, 2007 07:54AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Joe_S December 24, 2007 03:17AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 24, 2007 08:33AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Joe_S December 25, 2007 02:15AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Don Barone December 25, 2007 02:00PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Joe_S December 27, 2007 02:44AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 27, 2007 03:32PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Joe_S December 28, 2007 03:36AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 28, 2007 04:41AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 11:29AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 28, 2007 11:42AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 11:47AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 28, 2007 12:01PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 12:16PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 28, 2007 12:32PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 12:40PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 28, 2007 12:47PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 01:15PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 28, 2007 01:25PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 01:47PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 29, 2007 07:56AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Warwick L Nixon December 29, 2007 01:35PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 29, 2007 02:48PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Hermione December 29, 2007 03:02PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 29, 2007 03:40PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Hermione December 30, 2007 09:17AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 30, 2007 11:19AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Hermione December 30, 2007 11:36AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 30, 2007 12:59PM

perhaps I'm staing teh obvious but..

Warwick L Nixon December 30, 2007 02:15PM

Re: perhaps I'm staing teh obvious but..

Scott Creighton December 30, 2007 02:25PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Hermione December 31, 2007 10:56AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 31, 2007 12:39PM

George Washington and the Cherry Tree

Warwick L Nixon December 31, 2007 12:59PM

Re: George Washington and the Cherry Tree

Scott Creighton December 31, 2007 01:04PM

Re: George Washington and the Cherry Tree

Warwick L Nixon December 31, 2007 01:17PM

Different directions, same endpoint

Anthony December 20, 2007 07:54AM

Re: Different directions, same endpoint

cladking December 20, 2007 11:23AM

Re: Different directions, same endpoint

Anthony December 20, 2007 07:08PM

Re: Different directions, same endpoint

cladking December 20, 2007 07:38PM

Re: Different directions, same endpoint

MJ Thomas December 20, 2007 02:13PM

Re: Different directions, same endpoint

Anthony December 20, 2007 07:20PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

C Wayne Taylor December 20, 2007 09:46AM

I'm sorry.

Anthony December 20, 2007 10:02AM

Re: I'm sorry.

Scott Creighton December 21, 2007 07:15AM

Re: I'm sorry.

Anthony December 21, 2007 07:18AM

Re: I'm sorry.

Scott Creighton December 21, 2007 07:30AM

Re: I'm sorry.

Anthony December 21, 2007 08:03AM

Re: I'm sorry.

cladking December 21, 2007 06:14PM

Re: I'm sorry.

Scott Creighton December 21, 2007 07:30AM

Re: I'm sorry.

C Wayne Taylor December 21, 2007 08:20AM

Re: I'm sorry.

Anthony December 21, 2007 08:26AM

*Moderation note*

Hermione December 21, 2007 09:53AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

MJ Thomas December 20, 2007 11:36AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Anthony December 21, 2007 06:27AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 20, 2007 12:22PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Joe Schiller December 20, 2007 02:49PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Don Barone December 20, 2007 03:19PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Joe Schiller December 20, 2007 03:30PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Don Barone December 20, 2007 03:45PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 20, 2007 06:36PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 20, 2007 06:05PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Don Barone December 20, 2007 01:21PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Warwick L Nixon December 20, 2007 01:33PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Don Barone December 20, 2007 02:02PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Gerd VDC December 20, 2007 02:37PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

cladking December 20, 2007 02:57PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Anthony December 21, 2007 08:17AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

cladking December 21, 2007 11:33AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Ronald December 20, 2007 05:23PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Jammer December 21, 2007 03:38PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Jon_B December 20, 2007 02:57PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Scott Creighton December 20, 2007 06:10PM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Don Barone December 23, 2007 09:46AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Hermione December 23, 2007 10:13AM

Re: Death knell for a Pan-Generational Giza?

Jammer December 23, 2007 12:49PM

Even if you could kill it...

cladking December 23, 2007 11:36AM

Re: Even if you could kill it...

Anthony December 23, 2007 12:35PM

Re: Even if you could kill it...

MJ Thomas December 23, 2007 12:57PM

just follow the links

Warwick L Nixon December 24, 2007 01:26PM

Re: just follow the links

MJ Thomas December 24, 2007 03:16PM

Re: just follow the links

cladking December 24, 2007 08:12PM

Context

Warwick L Nixon December 26, 2007 10:34AM

Re: Context

MJ Thomas December 26, 2007 12:31PM

Re: Context

Warwick L Nixon December 26, 2007 02:09PM

Re: Context

MJ Thomas December 26, 2007 02:48PM

*Moderation note*

Hermione December 26, 2007 03:30PM

Re: Context

cladking December 26, 2007 05:44PM

Re: Context

Warwick L Nixon December 27, 2007 11:41AM

Re: Context

cladking December 27, 2007 04:12PM

Re: Context

Scott Creighton December 27, 2007 04:23PM

Re: Context

cladking December 27, 2007 04:41PM

Re: Context

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 11:18AM

Re: Context

Scott Creighton December 28, 2007 11:33AM

Re: Context

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 11:44AM

Re: Context

Scott Creighton December 28, 2007 12:07PM

Re: Context

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 12:26PM

Re: Context

Scott Creighton December 28, 2007 12:36PM

Re: Context

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 12:44PM

Re: Context

Scott Creighton December 28, 2007 12:51PM

*Note to sub-thread*

Hermione December 28, 2007 12:56PM

Re: Context

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 11:15AM

Re: Context

Jammer December 27, 2007 12:28PM

Re: Context

cladking December 27, 2007 04:34PM

Re: Context

Jammer December 27, 2007 04:54PM

Re: Context

cladking December 27, 2007 05:38PM

Re: Context

Jammer December 28, 2007 01:21PM

Re: Context

cladking December 28, 2007 02:53PM

Re: Context

Ritva Kurittu December 28, 2007 03:14PM

Re: Context

cladking December 28, 2007 03:47PM

Re: Context

Ritva Kurittu December 28, 2007 03:57PM

Re: Context

cladking December 28, 2007 04:51PM

Re: Context

Ritva Kurittu December 28, 2007 05:17PM

Re: Context

cladking December 28, 2007 06:42PM

Re: Context

Ritva Kurittu December 29, 2007 12:56PM

Re: Context

cladking December 29, 2007 06:04PM

Re: Context

Ritva Kurittu January 01, 2008 01:52PM

Re: Context

cladking January 01, 2008 05:49PM

Re: Context

Ritva Kurittu January 02, 2008 03:28AM

Re: Context

Ritva Kurittu December 28, 2007 03:19PM

Re: Context

cladking December 28, 2007 01:59AM

Re: Context

Ritva Kurittu December 28, 2007 10:48AM

Re: Context

Warwick L Nixon December 28, 2007 11:23AM

Re: Context

Ritva Kurittu December 28, 2007 03:15PM

Re: Context

Jammer December 28, 2007 04:00PM

Re: Context

Jammer December 27, 2007 11:27AM

Re: just follow the links

Warwick L Nixon December 26, 2007 10:36AM

Re: just follow the links

cladking December 24, 2007 07:55PM

Re: Even if you could kill it...

cladking December 23, 2007 02:19PM

Re: Even if you could kill it...

Joe_S December 24, 2007 03:26AM



Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login