December 20, 2007 02:13PM
|
Registered: 18 years ago
Posts: 3,316
|
Hello Anthony,
You write, ‘The Grotto was completely insignificant to the planning of the structure. In fact, it may have been hit by accident while digging the escape shaft from the Grand Gallery.’
I have good reason to believe that the Grotto did play a role in the planning of Khufu’s pyramid, and that what you and others see as an ‘escape shaft’ was in fact a ventilation shaft.
I will not go into this further here because it will take us too far away from the subject of this thread.
I’ll broach this particular subject another day.
You write, ‘Large outcrops of rock" potentially have deep significance in Egyptian cosmology. They represent the Primeval Mound.
I am aware of this.
You continue, . As such, the fact that it would make work easier becomes very secondary.’
How can you be sure that this building a pyramid on a mound was so de rigueur that Khufu felt compelled to build his pyramid on one?
Were all of the pyramids built on mounds?
The outcrop on which Khufu’s pyramid stands was around in Sneferu’s time, so why didn’t he build one of his pyramids on it?
No, Anthony, the evidence is that the Grotto with its fissures and the decreased workload had priority over the ‘mound’.
You write, ‘Not so much as Khufu would never have put his burial edifice "in conjunction" with somebody else's, simply because he would have no foreknowledge of what kind of person that later king would be. His entrance to the Duat was contingent upon his choices in this world. Choosing to align your tomb with that of a despot would have been a bad choice indeed. Since he would not have been able to tell whether Khafre or Menkaure were going to be good people, he could not afford to take the chance with his immortal spirit.’
But I’m not saying that Khufu aligned his pyramid with something.
My current thinking is there was nothing else at Giza for Khufu to align his pyramid to.
I wrote, ‘I see Khufu’s son and immediate successor, Djedfre, locating his pyramid at Abu Roash, some 5 miles from Giza, as supporting my contention that his father was not expecting anybody to build a pyramid close to his.’
You reply, ‘I prefer the more pragmatic approach: the site was too cluttered following his father's massive project. He had to move away. Same thing with Nebka, between Khafre and Menkaure.’
An interesting idea.
However, as Djedfre is known to have finished off the boat pits (no mean task) and probably tidied up generally, I disagree with you.
As work on Khufu’s pyramid neared completion there would have been thousands of workers on hand to tidy up most of the building site.
I think they would have done this regardless of whether or not somebody was waiting to build another pyramid nearby.
Chances are that by the time Khufu’s pyramid was completed, followed by a 70 day breathing space before the funeral, the whole site was fairly uncluttered.
So much so that Djedfre could have located his pyramid at Giza had he wanted to.
I wrote, ‘But what about Khafre and Menkaure opting for Giza?
Well, I suspect that ego, jealousy, family politics and some kind of power struggle come into play here.’
You reply, ‘Those have all been laid aside recently, since there's no evidence to support them.’
Doesn’t the ‘re’ on the end of ‘Djedfre’ indicate a fundamental change in the religious/social System?
What about Menkaure’s switching emphasis from the pyramid to the Mortuary (?) Temple?
Doesn’t this suggest a fundamental change taking place?
And who knows what triggered these changes?
I still look to petty foibles and family politics – with restlessness amongst the people helping things along - as the most likely triggers.
Regards,
MJ
Subject |
Author |
Posted |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 20, 2007 05:31AM |
|
Ronald |
December 20, 2007 07:12AM |
|
Dave L |
December 20, 2007 07:27AM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 20, 2007 11:11AM |
|
Clive |
December 20, 2007 12:15PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 20, 2007 12:25PM |
|
Clive |
December 20, 2007 07:38PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 21, 2007 05:43AM |
|
Anthony |
December 21, 2007 06:42AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 21, 2007 07:35AM |
|
Anthony |
December 21, 2007 07:59AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 21, 2007 08:16AM |
|
Anthony |
December 21, 2007 08:24AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 21, 2007 08:52AM |
|
Anthony |
December 21, 2007 08:58AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 21, 2007 09:15AM |
|
Anthony |
December 21, 2007 09:20AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 21, 2007 09:34AM |
|
Hermione |
December 21, 2007 09:56AM |
|
Don Barone |
December 21, 2007 09:24AM |
|
Anthony |
December 21, 2007 09:27AM |
|
Don Barone |
December 21, 2007 11:30AM |
|
Jammer |
December 21, 2007 02:18PM |
|
Joe_S |
December 23, 2007 02:43AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 23, 2007 07:46AM |
|
Jammer |
December 23, 2007 12:31PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 23, 2007 01:06PM |
|
Jammer |
December 23, 2007 07:43PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 24, 2007 02:57PM |
|
Jammer |
December 25, 2007 09:22AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 27, 2007 04:11PM |
|
Jammer |
December 27, 2007 04:47PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 27, 2007 05:02PM |
|
Chris Tedder |
December 27, 2007 05:29PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 27, 2007 05:47PM |
|
Jammer |
December 28, 2007 12:21PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 12:30PM |
|
Jammer |
December 28, 2007 12:48PM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
December 28, 2007 03:06PM |
|
Jammer |
December 28, 2007 03:58PM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
December 28, 2007 04:37PM |
|
Jammer |
December 29, 2007 10:27AM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
December 29, 2007 12:27PM |
|
Jammer |
December 30, 2007 02:23PM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
January 01, 2008 02:01PM |
|
Jammer |
January 02, 2008 10:40AM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
January 02, 2008 05:10PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 03, 2008 12:34PM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
January 03, 2008 12:42PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 03, 2008 02:17PM |
|
Jammer |
January 03, 2008 01:49PM |
|
cladking |
January 03, 2008 05:58PM |
|
cladking |
December 28, 2007 04:56PM |
|
Joe_S |
December 24, 2007 03:04AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 24, 2007 07:27AM |
|
Jammer |
December 24, 2007 07:47AM |
|
Don Barone |
December 24, 2007 08:07AM |
|
Don Barone |
December 24, 2007 07:55AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 24, 2007 08:22AM |
|
Don Barone |
December 24, 2007 08:35AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 24, 2007 08:55AM |
|
Don Barone |
December 24, 2007 09:16AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 24, 2007 09:28AM |
|
Don Barone |
December 24, 2007 10:47AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 24, 2007 11:54AM |
|
Joe_S |
December 25, 2007 02:50AM |
|
Don Barone |
December 25, 2007 02:06PM |
|
Joe_S |
December 27, 2007 02:06AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 27, 2007 03:06PM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 20, 2007 03:35PM |
|
Clive |
December 20, 2007 10:25PM |
|
cladking |
December 20, 2007 11:06PM |
|
Clive |
December 21, 2007 04:00PM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 21, 2007 11:45AM |
|
Jammer |
December 21, 2007 02:54PM |
|
Clive |
December 25, 2007 02:04PM |
|
Jammer |
December 27, 2007 11:29AM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 27, 2007 11:46AM |
|
Jammer |
December 21, 2007 03:08PM |
|
Clive |
December 25, 2007 02:18PM |
|
Jammer |
December 27, 2007 11:25AM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 27, 2007 11:58AM |
|
Dave L |
December 20, 2007 01:57PM |
|
Joe_S |
December 23, 2007 02:39AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 20, 2007 07:33AM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 20, 2007 01:11PM |
|
Joe_S |
December 23, 2007 03:43AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 23, 2007 07:54AM |
|
Joe_S |
December 24, 2007 03:17AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 24, 2007 08:33AM |
|
Joe_S |
December 25, 2007 02:15AM |
|
Don Barone |
December 25, 2007 02:00PM |
|
Joe_S |
December 27, 2007 02:44AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 27, 2007 03:32PM |
|
Joe_S |
December 28, 2007 03:36AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 28, 2007 04:41AM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 11:29AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 28, 2007 11:42AM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 11:47AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 28, 2007 12:01PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 12:16PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 28, 2007 12:32PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 12:40PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 28, 2007 12:47PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 01:15PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 28, 2007 01:25PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 01:47PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 29, 2007 07:56AM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 29, 2007 01:35PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 29, 2007 02:48PM |
|
Hermione |
December 29, 2007 03:02PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 29, 2007 03:40PM |
|
Hermione |
December 30, 2007 09:17AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 30, 2007 11:19AM |
|
Hermione |
December 30, 2007 11:36AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 30, 2007 12:59PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 30, 2007 02:15PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 30, 2007 02:25PM |
|
Hermione |
December 31, 2007 10:56AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 31, 2007 12:39PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 31, 2007 12:59PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 31, 2007 01:04PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 31, 2007 01:17PM |
|
Anthony |
December 20, 2007 07:54AM |
|
cladking |
December 20, 2007 11:23AM |
|
Anthony |
December 20, 2007 07:08PM |
|
cladking |
December 20, 2007 07:38PM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 20, 2007 02:13PM |
|
Anthony |
December 20, 2007 07:20PM |
|
C Wayne Taylor |
December 20, 2007 09:46AM |
|
Anthony |
December 20, 2007 10:02AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 21, 2007 07:15AM |
|
Anthony |
December 21, 2007 07:18AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 21, 2007 07:30AM |
|
Anthony |
December 21, 2007 08:03AM |
|
cladking |
December 21, 2007 06:14PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 21, 2007 07:30AM |
|
C Wayne Taylor |
December 21, 2007 08:20AM |
|
Anthony |
December 21, 2007 08:26AM |
|
Hermione |
December 21, 2007 09:53AM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 20, 2007 11:36AM |
|
Anthony |
December 21, 2007 06:27AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 20, 2007 12:22PM |
|
Joe Schiller |
December 20, 2007 02:49PM |
|
Don Barone |
December 20, 2007 03:19PM |
|
Joe Schiller |
December 20, 2007 03:30PM |
|
Don Barone |
December 20, 2007 03:45PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 20, 2007 06:36PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 20, 2007 06:05PM |
|
Don Barone |
December 20, 2007 01:21PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 20, 2007 01:33PM |
|
Don Barone |
December 20, 2007 02:02PM |
|
Gerd VDC |
December 20, 2007 02:37PM |
|
cladking |
December 20, 2007 02:57PM |
|
Anthony |
December 21, 2007 08:17AM |
|
cladking |
December 21, 2007 11:33AM |
|
Ronald |
December 20, 2007 05:23PM |
|
Jammer |
December 21, 2007 03:38PM |
|
Jon_B |
December 20, 2007 02:57PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 20, 2007 06:10PM |
|
Don Barone |
December 23, 2007 09:46AM |
|
Hermione |
December 23, 2007 10:13AM |
|
Jammer |
December 23, 2007 12:49PM |
|
cladking |
December 23, 2007 11:36AM |
|
Anthony |
December 23, 2007 12:35PM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 23, 2007 12:57PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 24, 2007 01:26PM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 24, 2007 03:16PM |
|
cladking |
December 24, 2007 08:12PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 26, 2007 10:34AM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 26, 2007 12:31PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 26, 2007 02:09PM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 26, 2007 02:48PM |
|
Hermione |
December 26, 2007 03:30PM |
|
cladking |
December 26, 2007 05:44PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 27, 2007 11:41AM |
|
cladking |
December 27, 2007 04:12PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 27, 2007 04:23PM |
|
cladking |
December 27, 2007 04:41PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 11:18AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 28, 2007 11:33AM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 11:44AM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 28, 2007 12:07PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 12:26PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 28, 2007 12:36PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 12:44PM |
|
Scott Creighton |
December 28, 2007 12:51PM |
|
Hermione |
December 28, 2007 12:56PM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 11:15AM |
|
Jammer |
December 27, 2007 12:28PM |
|
cladking |
December 27, 2007 04:34PM |
|
Jammer |
December 27, 2007 04:54PM |
|
cladking |
December 27, 2007 05:38PM |
|
Jammer |
December 28, 2007 01:21PM |
|
cladking |
December 28, 2007 02:53PM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
December 28, 2007 03:14PM |
|
cladking |
December 28, 2007 03:47PM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
December 28, 2007 03:57PM |
|
cladking |
December 28, 2007 04:51PM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
December 28, 2007 05:17PM |
|
cladking |
December 28, 2007 06:42PM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
December 29, 2007 12:56PM |
|
cladking |
December 29, 2007 06:04PM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
January 01, 2008 01:52PM |
|
cladking |
January 01, 2008 05:49PM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
January 02, 2008 03:28AM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
December 28, 2007 03:19PM |
|
cladking |
December 28, 2007 01:59AM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
December 28, 2007 10:48AM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 28, 2007 11:23AM |
|
Ritva Kurittu |
December 28, 2007 03:15PM |
|
Jammer |
December 28, 2007 04:00PM |
|
Jammer |
December 27, 2007 11:27AM |
|
Warwick L Nixon |
December 26, 2007 10:36AM |
|
cladking |
December 24, 2007 07:55PM |
|
cladking |
December 23, 2007 02:19PM |
|
Joe_S |
December 24, 2007 03:26AM |