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May 12, 2024, 6:48 am UTC    
January 06, 2008 05:27AM
cladking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really didn't want to introduce geysers in this
> thread but I don't believe all the Egyptian gods
> are "creator" gods. Osiris, his Siblings, Geb,
> Nut, and Horus did not require the ability to
> create. Osiris is sometimes said to have created
> the earth, food, manna, and numerous other things
> but this must be viewed in context. By providing
> water he creates food, by providing food he
> creates the earth and sustains the gods. His ka
> (yeast gas) resides within and spills out over the
> two lands (the valley/ the horizon)(lower valey/
> upper Egypt)(desert/ cultivated land).

Mythically speaking, yes, the Ennead gods are deities which create, and as direct offspring of Atum, they can be nothing but gods of his body. Osiris=Ra=Atum is a well established mythological premise, having to do with agrarian fertility and with overall creation as an ongoing event.

Geb=fertility of earth and animals, Nut is the night sky which brings moisture (her mother Terfnut) and air (he father Shu) to earth in the form of rain and wind to assure that fertility.

Isis is a celestial being who creates by magic, such that she is known as the "great Enchantress." Her magical powers are strong enough to even bring the sun-god Ra into weakness. Sutekh, her brother, creates storms and is the lord of deserts, while her sister Nephthys creates and maintains the trappings of the dead (the mummy bandages are called the tresses of Nephthys, for example) and guards them in the afterlife within the tomb (which may be the origin of her name as "mistress of the mansion"). Horus, be he the Elder or the son of Isis/Osiris, is the creator of society as its king. Originally as aspect of Osiris, Horus quickly takes this role over providing a paternal succesion pattern to government and society and exercising the kingly prerogative of maintaining ma'at on behalf of the gods within human society.

So, all gods create a part of their function, but kings are not and will not be their equivalent under any circumstance. As the Books of Gates and other royal afterlife books indicate, the role of the king after death is to assist Ra and other gods in their nightly struggle with Apep. In this, the king, while an elevated mortal in this struggle, is still not a god of the same stature as Horus, Ra, Atum, etc.

Further, this struggle is a part of the king's testing to prove himself worthy of entry into the afterlife, which he must do again and again, night after night. Gods do not have to "prove" themselves worthy of entry into the pantheon - but deceased kings do have to prove themselves, to even hope of merely achieving communion with the gods in the afterlife.

Reference:

Assmann, J. 1989. Death and Initiation in the Funerary Religion of Ancient Egypt.In W. K. Simpson, Ed., Religion and Philosophy in Ancient Egypt: 135-155. Yale Egyptological Studies (YES) 3. W. K. Simpson. New Haven: Yale University Press.

Barguet, P. 1975. Le Livre des Portes et la transmission du pouvoir royal. Revue d' Egyptologie 27: 30-36.

Darnell, J. C. 1995. The Enigmatic Netherworld Books of the Solar-Osirian Unity: Cryptographic Compositions in the Tombs of Tutankhamun, Ramesses VI, and Ramesses IX. (4 Vols.). Ph. D. Dissertation (Unpublished). Near Eastern Studies and Civilizations. Chicago:University of Chicago.

Eschweiler, P. 1994. Bildzauber im alten Ägypten. Die Verwendung von Bildern und Gegenständen in magischen Handlungen nach den Texten des Mitteleren und Neuen Reiches. Orbis Biblicus et Orientalis 137. O. Keel and C. Uehlinger. Göttingen: Vandenhoeck and Ruprecht.

Finnestad, R. B. 1989a. The Pharaoh and the "Democratization" of Post-Mortem Life.In G. Englund, Ed., The Religion of the Ancient Egyptians: Cognitive Structures and Popular Expressions: 89-93. BOREAS 20: Uppsala Studies in Ancient Mediterraneans and Near Eastern Civilizations. R. Holthoer and T. Linders. Uppsala: ACTA Universitatis Upsaliensis.

Fischer, H. G. 1976. Representations of Dryt-mourners in the Old Kingdom.In H. G. Fischer, Ed., Egyptian Studies I: Varia: 39-50. New York: Metropolitan Museum of Art. (These mourners were specifically associated with veneration of the funereal aspects of the goddess Nephthys.)

Griffis, K. 2002. Traversing the Far-Land: Post-Amarna through early Ramesside Royal Tombs as Sacred Landscapes in Ancient Egypt. M. A. (Egyptian Archaeology) (Unpublished). Institute of Archaeology. London:University College London. (Discussion of the afterlife testing as a struggle by the king on a nightly basis, particularly after the Amarna period.)

Hornung, E. 1981. Auf den Spuren der Sonne: Gang durch ein ägyptisches Königsgrab. Eranos-Jahrbuch 50: 431-475.

__________. 1994. Black Holes View from Within: Hell in Ancient Egyptian Thought. Diogenes 165, 42(1): 133-156.

__________. 1999. The Ancient Egyptian Books of the Afterlife. D. Lorton, transl. Ithaca: Cornell University Press.

Kaplony, P. 1984. Leben «Sub Specie Aeternatis» als Xri-kA. In I. d'Égyptologie, Ed., Mélanges Adolphe Gutbub: 115-123. Montpellier: Publication de la Recherche - Université de Montpellier. (Discussion the various concepts of deceased humans who become eternal beings in the afterlife, which are not gods, specifically the /hpi zsSt/ and the /Xri kA/, and Egyptian attitudes towards the same.)

Meeks, D. 1995. Le foie, Maât et la nature humaine. In T. DuQuesne, Ed., Hermes Aegyptiacus: Egyptological Studies for B. H. Stricker on his 85th Birthday: 145 - 156. Discussions in Egyptology Special Number 2. Oxford: DE Publications.

Piankoff, A. 1964. The Litany of Re. Egyptian Religious Texts and Representations. Bollingen Series XL: 4. New York: Pantheon/Random House.

Piankoff, A. and C. Maystre 1939-1946. Le Livre des Portes. Mémoires de l'Institut français du Caire 74 and 75. Cairo: IFAO.

Ritner, R. K. 1993. The Mechanics of Ancient Egyptian Magical Practice. Studies in Ancient Oriental Civilization (SAOC) 54. T. A. Holland and R. M. Schoen. Chicago: Oriental Institute.

Schott, S. 1953. Symbol und Zauber also Grundform altägyptischen Denkens. Studium Generale 6(5): 278-288.

Stillwell, G. A. 2000. Conduct and Behavior as Determinants for the Afterlife: A Comparison of the Judgments of the Dead in Ancient Egypt and Ancient Greece. Ph. D. Dissertation (Unpublished). College of Arts and Sciences.Florida State University.

Zandee, J. 1960. Death as an Enemy: According to Ancient Egyptian Conceptions. W. F. Klasens. Studies in the History of Religions (Supplements to Numen). Vol. V. Leiden: Brill.

HTH.

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Doctoral Programme in Oriental Studies [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom

Subject Author Posted

Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 12:10PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 02, 2008 12:20PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 12:27PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 02, 2008 12:33PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 12:57PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 02, 2008 01:11PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 01:54PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 02, 2008 02:01PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 02:14PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 02, 2008 03:15PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 04:50PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg January 02, 2008 11:19PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 11:42PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Khazar-khum January 03, 2008 01:40AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Jammer January 03, 2008 02:22PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 03, 2008 11:14PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Khazar-khum January 04, 2008 12:45AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 04, 2008 01:19AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg January 04, 2008 05:16AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Khazar-khum January 04, 2008 03:43PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Khazar-khum January 04, 2008 03:57PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 04, 2008 04:17PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 09, 2008 12:26PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg January 04, 2008 05:47AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 04, 2008 11:49AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg January 06, 2008 05:27AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 07, 2008 12:59AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Jammer January 09, 2008 11:18AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Jammer January 02, 2008 12:57PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 01:05PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Kanga January 02, 2008 07:36PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Dave L January 02, 2008 12:50PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 02, 2008 01:01PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 01:02PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 02, 2008 01:14PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Jammer January 02, 2008 01:49PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 01:57PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 02, 2008 02:05PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Khazar-khum January 02, 2008 04:50PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 05:00PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Khazar-khum January 02, 2008 08:20PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 02, 2008 09:03PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 03, 2008 12:11PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Jammer January 03, 2008 02:26PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Khazar-khum January 03, 2008 06:55PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Jammer January 04, 2008 02:24PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Khazar-khum January 04, 2008 03:30PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 05, 2008 04:51PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 03, 2008 05:05PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 04, 2008 10:22AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Pistol January 02, 2008 05:27PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Kanga January 02, 2008 08:55PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Kanga January 02, 2008 07:40PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Byrd January 09, 2008 10:30PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 10, 2008 12:44AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 11, 2008 10:19AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Byrd January 12, 2008 07:15PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 12, 2008 09:09PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 12, 2008 09:36PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg January 13, 2008 02:55PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 13, 2008 04:02PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 13, 2008 04:27PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 13, 2008 04:41PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 13, 2008 04:54PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 13, 2008 05:52PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Warwick L Nixon January 13, 2008 06:21PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Byrd January 15, 2008 10:16AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 15, 2008 02:46PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Byrd January 15, 2008 04:49PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Byrd January 13, 2008 04:41PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 13, 2008 05:54PM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

Jammer January 15, 2008 09:01AM

Re: Why no ascended kings?

cladking January 15, 2008 02:58PM



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