clem ciamarra Wrote:
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> > Katherine Griffis-Greenberg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> I know of no text which says the north was "more
> sacred" than the south, so if you contend that,
> you'd better be able to show where in says that in
> primary texts from ancient Egypt.

---

>
> nile flooding occurs near sirius the heliacal
> rising - their new year - once again we
> have precursor events happening in north
> Heliopolis priests, also the ‘rebirth’ of the
> cosmic Horus-King in Heliopolis.

Nile flooding was celebrated throughout Egypt from south to north, as it indicated new silt being brough in for farming and thus "gave life" to the Two Lands. It's not relegated to the north as a place for Inundation celebration. The / wp-rnp.t/, or "New year", was celebrated in the middle of July and was the starting-point of the calendar; three events must coincide as closely as possible: the rising of Sirius, the rising of the sun and the beginning of the inundation. This made all 3 events, visible from anywhere in Egypt, the cause for festival. Inundation festivals and text (marking the height of the Nile) can be found in Karnak (Thebes), Edfu (south of Thebes), and even festivals at Dakhla Osas, since the oasis was considered a "continually flooding" Nile (Kaper 1997).
>
> Heliopolis, Memphis, Giza area was looked apond
> as zep tepi - 'garden of eden"

/zp tpy/ means "the first time" not "the garden of eden." When written, its determinative is a staircase glyph (O40), which refers in this case to a "terraced hill". Hence, the /zp tpy/ is the place of creation, and specifically a hill-mound (Wb II: 438).

This should give you a clue to why certain areas were called the /zp tpy/ - they had manmade hills within the temple of the town, which celebrated the power of creation by the home god. All deities were said to have stood upon a primeval mound (Atum of Heliiopolis, Neith of Sais, Ptah of Memphis, Khnum of Esna, etc.) and thereby created the world as the creator deiti(ies).

By the Late Period, several sites had also created "tombs of Osiris" which also includes a /zp tpy/ mound as part of its ritual makeup, since the body of Osiris, in death, is said to rest upon the primeval mound of creation. The Osireon, beside the temple of Seti I, built in the 19th Dynasty, has such a constructed hill of stone within the main chamber, which is called a /zp tpy/mound.

> the giza plateau the great shinx and sun temple
> at dendra so key

Dendera is in South Egypt, and the Temple at Dendur, now located in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, comes from further south still, in Nubia - so they are not located in the North of Egypt.

So why does this have anything to to with "the north" sacred land?

> opening of the mouth - also i believe started in
> north 1st event alexandria

I know of no such thing, so I will need you to give a citation for such a statement.

> isis raises the horus near buto in the north.

Isis rears Horus on the Island of Chemnis - according to Herodotus - but not any Egyptian text. This was his way of conforming the story of Horus' birth and upbringing by Isis with the Greek myth of Leto who nursemaids Apollo and Artemis, but making the Delta goddess Wadjet (whom the Greeks called Buto) the same sort of "nursemaid" as Leto. IOW, there's no specific mythic basis for thinking that Isis rears Horus in the marshes of the Delta only. Myths changed throughout Egypt indicating many otehr locals where Isis rears Horus.

> also horus took upper egypt from seth. horus
> joined the two lands
> after they built temples for horus there - not
> prior.

Excuse me, but bollocks. The initial temples for the worship of Horus are known to have been established in Nekhen/Hierakanoplis (modern: Kom el-Ahmar) located in southern Egypt, during the predynastic/early dynastic phases of Egyptian history (Baines and Malek 1980: 78-79; Bonnet 1952: 307).

> i like the depiction they give of horus - - horus
> has interesting numbers
> Horus took upon himself the shape of a handsome
> young man,
>
> twelve feet in height.---- hmmmm `12 zodiacs
>
> His hand held a harpoon thirty feet long with a
> blade six feet
> wide at its point of greatest width. hmmm 30 +6 =
> 36 hmmm 36decans
> reminds me of my pic of man with spear in that hit
> the mother of the sphinx the chimera
> on my webpage.

And where are you getting these dimensions? I would, again, need to see a citation for this.

> south of aswan was nubians - egyptians felt they
> different race - black During almost the entire
> Dynastic Period of Egypt's history, the Nubians
> (or Nehesyw) were considered by the Egyptians to
> be "vile" and "wretched". The official view of the
> Nubians was clear from a Middle Kingdom boundary
> stele of Senusret III from Smna which denounces
> them

What does Nubia have to do with whether the "southern" or "northern" section of EGYPT as 'more sacred' than the other direction?

So far, you haven't show any direct quote from Egyptian texts which say the "north" was "more sacred" than the "south" of Egypt, which is your contention.

> now we all know egypt mined down south for gold
> and things but clearly the evidence and sites
> shows lower egypt to be key,

What evidence? You haven't shown any.

> anyhow i can go on and theres a ton i could add -
> but you get the drift.

I get the drift that you're confused: so far you have given --

a) a spurious translation which doesn't show it related specifically to the north of Egypt;

b) cited other areas as "sacred" northern lands, when in fact, they are located in the south of Egypt, specifically mangling of certain mythical references to attempt to support your contention (such as Horus only being worshipped in the south after the unification of Egypt, when in fact he was worshipped in the south during predynastic and early dynastic periods); and

c) stated that the Inundation of the Nile festivals were pointed located in the north, when, historically and factually speaking, they were celebrated throughout the entire land of Egypt.

Not to mention, of course, that you cite no article or reference materials to support any of this.

Perhaps you had better rethink your position.

Reference:

Wb = Erman, A. and H. Grapow 1926. Wörterbuch der Aegyptischen Sprache. (7 Vols). Leipzig: J. C. Hinrich.

Baines, J. and J. Málek 1980. Atlas of Ancient Egypt. Cairo: Les Livres de France.

Bonnet, H. 1952. Reallexikon der Aegyptischen Religiongeschichte. Berlin: Walter deGruyter.

Kaper, O. E. 1997. Temples and Gods in Roman Dakhleh. Studies in the indigenous cults of an Egyptian oasis. PhD Dissertation. Proefschrift Rijksuniversiteit: Groningen.

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Doctoral Programme in Oriental Studies [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom