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May 6, 2024, 1:03 am UTC    
October 17, 2007 04:42AM
Khazar-khum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Katherine Griffis-Greenberg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> > Katherine Reece Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > > I would think that the reconstruction
> using the skull would be the closest to what he
> looked like, especially the American reconstruction
> which was a "blind" one. They had no idea who the
> skull was or where the person came from. So there
> were no prejudices involved.<<<
> >
> > As I recall, the media of the time stated
> that all forensic reconstructions were blind. In my
> > opinion, the French (Daynes) reconstruction
> has a quality in which the artist unconsciously
> has imposed some of her own features on the
> model. This was fairly apparent when you see this
> photo of the artist, Daynes, at work
> >
> >
> >
> > and then of her finished product
> >
> >
> >
> > This is a problem, which has a specific name
> > (which escapes me, at the moment), that most
> > reconstruction artists guard against, but to
> me, on this reconstruction, it seems fairly
> apparent.<<
>
> Honestly, I'm not seeing it. She has an underbite
> & short, squared-off nose; he has an overbite
> & receding chin.

I am not arguing that she gave the model's bone structure her own underlying features, but I am saying that in certain areas where she could make personal (subjective) choices on the external (fleshy) features of the model, she has used some of her own features.

See the 3/4 shot of the finished French model face in the first post (which shows all 3 reconstructions) and then compare with the post with the picture of Daynes' face.

Eyes, lips, and nose bridge appear to be very close to Daynes' own features, and these are 3 areas where she has to make subjective choices, since bone/cartilage does not exist for the proper tissue outlay or depth.

> I think you're looking for 'unconcious
> projection'.

Could it be that simple a term? Usually forensics comes up with a much fancier term than that, I thought...grinning smiley Yet, that is the concept I'm trying to convey.

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Doctoral Programme in Oriental Studies [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom

Subject Author Posted

Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

clem ciamarra October 05, 2007 09:40PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

David Johnson October 06, 2007 07:23AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 06, 2007 09:17AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Katherine Reece October 14, 2007 04:05PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 06, 2007 10:30AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Greg Reeder October 06, 2007 02:38PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Rick Baudé October 06, 2007 04:14PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 06, 2007 04:29PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Rick Baudé October 06, 2007 04:57PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

clem ciamarra October 06, 2007 07:46PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Rick Baudé October 06, 2007 08:03PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

fmetrol October 06, 2007 10:25PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 07, 2007 10:42AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

fmetrol October 07, 2007 04:59PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 08, 2007 11:29AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

clem ciamarra October 08, 2007 12:27PM

Tyrrhenses

Hermione October 08, 2007 02:18PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 07, 2007 10:39AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

clem ciamarra October 07, 2007 02:15PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 08, 2007 09:32AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

clem ciamarra October 08, 2007 11:54AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 07, 2007 06:26PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Tommi Huhtamaki October 08, 2007 10:04AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Greg Reeder October 06, 2007 06:30PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Rick Baudé October 06, 2007 07:21PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Khazar-khum October 07, 2007 12:39AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 07, 2007 10:44AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Khazar-khum October 07, 2007 03:15PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 07, 2007 06:46PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Greg Reeder October 07, 2007 07:02PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 07, 2007 07:39PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Doug M October 06, 2007 10:08PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

clem ciamarra October 07, 2007 01:15AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Hermione October 07, 2007 03:35AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

clem ciamarra October 07, 2007 01:35PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Doug Weller October 08, 2007 01:26AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

clem ciamarra October 08, 2007 06:40PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 09, 2007 09:58AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 07, 2007 10:52AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 07, 2007 02:50PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Tommi Huhtamaki October 07, 2007 03:18PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

bernard October 07, 2007 04:20PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Tommi Huhtamaki October 07, 2007 04:34PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

bernard October 07, 2007 05:09PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Rick Baudé October 07, 2007 04:28PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 07, 2007 04:54PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

bernard October 07, 2007 04:59PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 07, 2007 05:12PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

bernard October 07, 2007 06:41PM

PhotoShop fun

Greg Reeder October 07, 2007 07:15PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 08, 2007 09:46AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Rick Baudé October 07, 2007 09:53PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 08, 2007 09:51AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Rick Baudé October 08, 2007 08:28PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 11, 2007 08:06AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 11, 2007 09:44AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Khazar-khum October 11, 2007 03:18PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 13, 2007 11:37AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Doug M October 09, 2007 06:49AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 09, 2007 08:09AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Doug M October 09, 2007 06:56PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 09, 2007 07:35PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Doug M October 10, 2007 04:58AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 10, 2007 12:27PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 10, 2007 12:43PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 10, 2007 02:13PM

Moderator's note

Hermione October 09, 2007 08:59AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Rick Baudé October 10, 2007 11:25PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 11, 2007 10:17AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 11, 2007 12:00PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Rick Baudé October 11, 2007 09:22PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 13, 2007 11:39AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 13, 2007 11:51AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 13, 2007 11:58AM

An honest answer to Greg....

darkuser October 14, 2007 06:27PM

Re: An honest answer to Greg....

Roxana Cooper October 15, 2007 09:51AM

Re: An honest answer to Greg....

Doug October 16, 2007 05:41AM

Re: An honest answer to Greg....

Roxana Cooper October 16, 2007 10:01AM

Re: An honest answer to Greg....

Doug October 16, 2007 07:40PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

clem ciamarra October 07, 2007 05:57PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 08, 2007 09:06PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 09, 2007 11:34AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 09, 2007 04:23PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 09, 2007 06:49PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 09, 2007 06:43PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Warwick L Nixon October 09, 2007 09:55PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 10, 2007 05:09AM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 10, 2007 06:39AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 10, 2007 07:32AM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 10, 2007 09:31AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 10, 2007 07:45PM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 11, 2007 06:00AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 11, 2007 07:27AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 11, 2007 09:54AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 11, 2007 06:26PM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 11, 2007 06:45PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Jammer October 12, 2007 07:30AM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 12, 2007 09:06AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 12, 2007 09:29AM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 12, 2007 05:41PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 14, 2007 07:37PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Jammer October 16, 2007 09:50AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 11, 2007 06:51PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 11, 2007 07:39PM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 11, 2007 11:27PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 12, 2007 04:22AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 12, 2007 08:02AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Greg Reeder October 12, 2007 08:31AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 12, 2007 08:47AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 12, 2007 09:30AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 12, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 13, 2007 11:46AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 14, 2007 08:41PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 15, 2007 09:55AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 15, 2007 09:44PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 16, 2007 02:15PM

The Big Lie!

Greg Reeder October 16, 2007 11:39PM

Re: The Big Lie!

Khazar-khum October 17, 2007 01:50AM

Re: The Big Lie!

Doug October 17, 2007 08:50AM

Re: The Big Lie!

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 11:37AM

Re: The Big Lie!

Hermione October 17, 2007 03:46AM

Re: The Big Lie!

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 11:34AM

Note

Hermione October 17, 2007 01:58PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 08:05AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 11:38AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 12:45PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 02:20PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 04:34PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug Weller October 18, 2007 04:57AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 18, 2007 07:32AM

Re: Elements of A lie

bernard October 10, 2007 11:40AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 10, 2007 10:04AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 10, 2007 08:27PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 11, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Greg Reeder October 11, 2007 10:23AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 11, 2007 06:37PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 11, 2007 07:33PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 11, 2007 07:52PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 12, 2007 12:46AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 12, 2007 04:36AM

Note to sub-thread

Hermione October 12, 2007 06:28AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 12, 2007 01:32PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 13, 2007 09:30AM

Closure of sub-thread

Hermione October 13, 2007 09:57AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 14, 2007 07:34PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Reece October 14, 2007 07:41PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 14, 2007 08:17PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 14, 2007 10:20PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 15, 2007 06:20AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 15, 2007 01:20PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 15, 2007 09:22PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 16, 2007 02:16PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 16, 2007 02:48PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 17, 2007 02:02AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 17, 2007 04:26AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 11:39AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 15, 2007 01:33PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 15, 2007 03:38PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 15, 2007 03:44PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 16, 2007 02:17PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 15, 2007 03:39PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 17, 2007 04:42AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 18, 2007 03:53PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 15, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 16, 2007 05:26AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 16, 2007 02:21PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 16, 2007 11:42PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 17, 2007 02:00AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 08:24AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 11:45AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 04:07PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 04:43PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 07:05PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 18, 2007 12:38AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 18, 2007 05:43AM

Re: Elements of A lie

bernard October 18, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 18, 2007 08:39PM

Re: Elements of A lie

bernard October 18, 2007 09:33PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 19, 2007 12:06AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 18, 2007 09:49AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 18, 2007 08:50PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 18, 2007 11:50PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 21, 2007 09:46PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 22, 2007 03:38AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 22, 2007 04:36AM

Sub-thread closed

Hermione October 22, 2007 07:28AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 18, 2007 03:57PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 18, 2007 09:04PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 18, 2007 11:52PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 21, 2007 09:53PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 22, 2007 04:31AM

Sub-thread closed

Hermione October 22, 2007 07:30AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 19, 2007 11:24AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 10, 2007 01:50PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Greg Reeder October 10, 2007 02:38PM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 10, 2007 06:48PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 11, 2007 08:36AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Greg Reeder October 11, 2007 10:01AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 11, 2007 11:43AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 11, 2007 04:53PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 13, 2007 09:35AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 25, 2007 05:06AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 26, 2007 12:35PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 26, 2007 08:29PM

Note

Hermione October 27, 2007 05:16AM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 27, 2007 01:45PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

Anthony October 27, 2007 02:38PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 28, 2007 04:18PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 28, 2007 09:23PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 30, 2007 04:53PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 31, 2007 09:41AM

**Moderation note - sub-thread closed**

Hermione October 31, 2007 11:07AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Warwick L Nixon October 13, 2007 12:33PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 14, 2007 09:18AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 14, 2007 10:25AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Warwick L Nixon October 14, 2007 01:06PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Byrd October 07, 2007 09:07PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Doug October 14, 2007 07:48PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Lee October 09, 2007 09:41AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Khazar-khum October 09, 2007 04:44PM



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