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May 6, 2024, 2:50 am UTC    
October 18, 2007 07:32AM
Doug, I noted this idea that somehow blacks in Egypt don't qualify as blacks just because they are within the boundary of Egypt already on this thread. Black means and has always meant brown skinned person like those from Africa, not culture, not language, not nationality or religion. If Egyptians around Luxor have medium to dark brown skin and are mostly of African ancestry and have features in common with other Africans along the Nile Valley and in the Sahara, then they are black. Being within the boundaries of Egypt does not change black from what it has always meant. And yes there are very dark brown people in Egypt around Luxor and elsewhere in Egypt, with features found among Africans elsewhere on the continent. The point being that there never was "special" set of characteristics for the indigenous population of Egypt that made them biologically distinct from the other indigenous populations of the African continent that would make their features and phenotype so distinct that they should be categorized as some special form of "other". Many Egyptians to this day are indeed black in every sense of the word. However, many modern Egyptians are not black and are very light and some have more foreign ancestry than other Egyptians. That reflects the history of Egypt as a crossroads of cultures, especially those that came after the dynastic period. That does not change the fact that the original indigenous population and phenotype of the Nile Valley was always black and still is black, even if many more people of mixed ancestry now occupy parts of the Nile in Egypt and elsewhere.

Quibbling over whether a dark brown Egyptian is black is only a way for justifying separating Egypt from its place in Africa. The original inhabitants of the Nile Valley had medium to dark brown skin just like other populations along the Nile and in the Sahara. The original populations of the Nile descended from populations in Africa. Therefore, there never was a separation between the original population of Egypt and the populations in other parts of the Nile or Sahara from a biological perspective, that would make the Egyptians some "other" species of people separate from other Africans. Biology does not support this, archeology does not support this and genetics do not support this. The fact that many Egyptians have features like pale skin and features in common with Europeans and some Arabs is a reflection of the fact of the mixed ancestry of some populations in various parts of Egypt. There is no mystery here. There is no need to pretend that these features appeared magically along the Nile because of some special "elements" in the environment of Egypt. No such magic existed. The features of the modern Egyptian population are easily explained by the migrations and influence of various populations along the Nile, starting with the indigenous aboriginal black African population of the Nile followed by other populations from Europe, the Levant and Arabia. Egypt has elements of all these populations in its veins and trying to separate Egypt from its place in history as a cross roads and melting pot of cultures is to deny reality.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2007 07:36AM by Doug M.
Subject Author Posted

Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

clem ciamarra October 05, 2007 09:40PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

David Johnson October 06, 2007 07:23AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 06, 2007 09:17AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Katherine Reece October 14, 2007 04:05PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 06, 2007 10:30AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Greg Reeder October 06, 2007 02:38PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Rick Baudé October 06, 2007 04:14PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 06, 2007 04:29PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Rick Baudé October 06, 2007 04:57PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

clem ciamarra October 06, 2007 07:46PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Rick Baudé October 06, 2007 08:03PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

fmetrol October 06, 2007 10:25PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 07, 2007 10:42AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

fmetrol October 07, 2007 04:59PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 08, 2007 11:29AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

clem ciamarra October 08, 2007 12:27PM

Tyrrhenses

Hermione October 08, 2007 02:18PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 07, 2007 10:39AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

clem ciamarra October 07, 2007 02:15PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 08, 2007 09:32AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

clem ciamarra October 08, 2007 11:54AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 07, 2007 06:26PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Tommi Huhtamaki October 08, 2007 10:04AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Greg Reeder October 06, 2007 06:30PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Rick Baudé October 06, 2007 07:21PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Khazar-khum October 07, 2007 12:39AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Roxana Cooper October 07, 2007 10:44AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Khazar-khum October 07, 2007 03:15PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 07, 2007 06:46PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Greg Reeder October 07, 2007 07:02PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 07, 2007 07:39PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Doug M October 06, 2007 10:08PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

clem ciamarra October 07, 2007 01:15AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Hermione October 07, 2007 03:35AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

clem ciamarra October 07, 2007 01:35PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Doug Weller October 08, 2007 01:26AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

clem ciamarra October 08, 2007 06:40PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 09, 2007 09:58AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 07, 2007 10:52AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 07, 2007 02:50PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Tommi Huhtamaki October 07, 2007 03:18PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

bernard October 07, 2007 04:20PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Tommi Huhtamaki October 07, 2007 04:34PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

bernard October 07, 2007 05:09PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Rick Baudé October 07, 2007 04:28PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 07, 2007 04:54PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

bernard October 07, 2007 04:59PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 07, 2007 05:12PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

bernard October 07, 2007 06:41PM

PhotoShop fun

Greg Reeder October 07, 2007 07:15PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 08, 2007 09:46AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Rick Baudé October 07, 2007 09:53PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 08, 2007 09:51AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Rick Baudé October 08, 2007 08:28PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 11, 2007 08:06AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 11, 2007 09:44AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Khazar-khum October 11, 2007 03:18PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 13, 2007 11:37AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Doug M October 09, 2007 06:49AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 09, 2007 08:09AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Doug M October 09, 2007 06:56PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 09, 2007 07:35PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Doug M October 10, 2007 04:58AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 10, 2007 12:27PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 10, 2007 12:43PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 10, 2007 02:13PM

Moderator's note

Hermione October 09, 2007 08:59AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Rick Baudé October 10, 2007 11:25PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 11, 2007 10:17AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 11, 2007 12:00PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Rick Baudé October 11, 2007 09:22PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 13, 2007 11:39AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Greg Reeder October 13, 2007 11:51AM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

Roxana Cooper October 13, 2007 11:58AM

An honest answer to Greg....

darkuser October 14, 2007 06:27PM

Re: An honest answer to Greg....

Roxana Cooper October 15, 2007 09:51AM

Re: An honest answer to Greg....

Doug October 16, 2007 05:41AM

Re: An honest answer to Greg....

Roxana Cooper October 16, 2007 10:01AM

Re: An honest answer to Greg....

Doug October 16, 2007 07:40PM

Re: A lie is a lie is a lie and still will be a lie

clem ciamarra October 07, 2007 05:57PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 08, 2007 09:06PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 09, 2007 11:34AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 09, 2007 04:23PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 09, 2007 06:49PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 09, 2007 06:43PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Warwick L Nixon October 09, 2007 09:55PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 10, 2007 05:09AM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 10, 2007 06:39AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 10, 2007 07:32AM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 10, 2007 09:31AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 10, 2007 07:45PM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 11, 2007 06:00AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 11, 2007 07:27AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 11, 2007 09:54AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 11, 2007 06:26PM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 11, 2007 06:45PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Jammer October 12, 2007 07:30AM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 12, 2007 09:06AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 12, 2007 09:29AM

Re: Elements of A lie

fmetrol October 12, 2007 05:41PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 14, 2007 07:37PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Jammer October 16, 2007 09:50AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 11, 2007 06:51PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 11, 2007 07:39PM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 11, 2007 11:27PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 12, 2007 04:22AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 12, 2007 08:02AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Greg Reeder October 12, 2007 08:31AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 12, 2007 08:47AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 12, 2007 09:30AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 12, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 13, 2007 11:46AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 14, 2007 08:41PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 15, 2007 09:55AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 15, 2007 09:44PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 16, 2007 02:15PM

The Big Lie!

Greg Reeder October 16, 2007 11:39PM

Re: The Big Lie!

Khazar-khum October 17, 2007 01:50AM

Re: The Big Lie!

Doug October 17, 2007 08:50AM

Re: The Big Lie!

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 11:37AM

Re: The Big Lie!

Hermione October 17, 2007 03:46AM

Re: The Big Lie!

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 11:34AM

Note

Hermione October 17, 2007 01:58PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 08:05AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 11:38AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 12:45PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 02:20PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 04:34PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug Weller October 18, 2007 04:57AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 18, 2007 07:32AM

Re: Elements of A lie

bernard October 10, 2007 11:40AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 10, 2007 10:04AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug M October 10, 2007 08:27PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 11, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Greg Reeder October 11, 2007 10:23AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 11, 2007 06:37PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 11, 2007 07:33PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 11, 2007 07:52PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 12, 2007 12:46AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 12, 2007 04:36AM

Note to sub-thread

Hermione October 12, 2007 06:28AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 12, 2007 01:32PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 13, 2007 09:30AM

Closure of sub-thread

Hermione October 13, 2007 09:57AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 14, 2007 07:34PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Reece October 14, 2007 07:41PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 14, 2007 08:17PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 14, 2007 10:20PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 15, 2007 06:20AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 15, 2007 01:20PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 15, 2007 09:22PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 16, 2007 02:16PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 16, 2007 02:48PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 17, 2007 02:02AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 17, 2007 04:26AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 11:39AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 15, 2007 01:33PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 15, 2007 03:38PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 15, 2007 03:44PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 16, 2007 02:17PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 15, 2007 03:39PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 17, 2007 04:42AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 18, 2007 03:53PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 15, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 16, 2007 05:26AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 16, 2007 02:21PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 16, 2007 11:42PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 17, 2007 02:00AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 08:24AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 11:45AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 04:07PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 17, 2007 04:43PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 17, 2007 07:05PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 18, 2007 12:38AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 18, 2007 05:43AM

Re: Elements of A lie

bernard October 18, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 18, 2007 08:39PM

Re: Elements of A lie

bernard October 18, 2007 09:33PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 19, 2007 12:06AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 18, 2007 09:49AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 18, 2007 08:50PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 18, 2007 11:50PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 21, 2007 09:46PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 22, 2007 03:38AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 22, 2007 04:36AM

Sub-thread closed

Hermione October 22, 2007 07:28AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 18, 2007 03:57PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 18, 2007 09:04PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 18, 2007 11:52PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Doug October 21, 2007 09:53PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Khazar-khum October 22, 2007 04:31AM

Sub-thread closed

Hermione October 22, 2007 07:30AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 19, 2007 11:24AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 10, 2007 01:50PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Greg Reeder October 10, 2007 02:38PM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 10, 2007 06:48PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 11, 2007 08:36AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Greg Reeder October 11, 2007 10:01AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 11, 2007 11:43AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 11, 2007 04:53PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 13, 2007 09:35AM

Re: Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 25, 2007 05:06AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 26, 2007 12:35PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 26, 2007 08:29PM

Note

Hermione October 27, 2007 05:16AM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 27, 2007 01:45PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

Anthony October 27, 2007 02:38PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 28, 2007 04:18PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 28, 2007 09:23PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 30, 2007 04:53PM

Re: r bauval? Elements of A lie

clem ciamarra October 31, 2007 09:41AM

**Moderation note - sub-thread closed**

Hermione October 31, 2007 11:07AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Warwick L Nixon October 13, 2007 12:33PM

Re: Elements of A lie

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg October 14, 2007 09:18AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Roxana Cooper October 14, 2007 10:25AM

Re: Elements of A lie

Warwick L Nixon October 14, 2007 01:06PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Byrd October 07, 2007 09:07PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Doug October 14, 2007 07:48PM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Lee October 09, 2007 09:41AM

Re: Hawass- ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it

Khazar-khum October 09, 2007 04:44PM



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