Pacal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you made a extreme statement about the
> Characters in the Bible being to support a
> Creationsit account.
>
> So rather than admit the possibility of this being
> possibly extreme we have.
>
Quote:For example, I think we would all agree
> that "God" (Lord, El, Elohim, Jesus) is the main
> topic of the bible. So, in Genesis we have God
> creating the earth, humans, etc. The way God is
> described in the bible is also used THROUGHOUT the
> Bible. So, in a passage that seems to telling some
> mundane story, might (probability) actually be
> CONTINUING to describe the creator (God) over and
> over and over and over again.
>
> So I suppose the descriptionm of the holiness code
> regarding the "uncleanliness" of menstrating women
> is actually describing "God"? Or how about the
> Day of Nicior in I Maccabes? I could go on very
> easily. Why not just admit that the Bible is not
> just describitions of "God".

***
Not EVERY verse has the symbolism of God within it. But, the symbolism of God runs rampant in the bible.


>
> You say:
>
Quote:When I say "creation story", I don't mean
> an acute (Genesis 1) "creation event" but rather
> the IDENTITY of the purported creator (using
> symbolism) is used over and over and over in the
> bible specifically whenever the "Lord" is nearby
> (in the text/story/context).
>
> YAWN!
>
> OH and all your quotes prove zero. I could of
> course go through the Bible and have quote after
> quote describing people doing mundane things. But
> given your loose defintion of "creation" story,
> which verges on non-fasifiability no doubt its all
> "creation" stories. I have no desire to waste my
> time.

***
If searching on the aforementioned terms doesn't pique your interest, then the bible is probably fully understood by yourself. I wasn't that confident so I continued to investigate.


>
> Oh and virtually none of the quotes seem to have
> anything to do with "creation", except in your
> near non-fasifiable definition.

***
If the creator's description (symbolism but using discrete terms) is used continually throughout the whole of the bible, I view that as layer the creator on top of "mundane events". It's a brilliant use of esoteric writing.


>
> you say:
>
Quote:It's not preconceived. How could ANYONE
> guess or even think the whole of the bible (i.e.
> the identity of God) would be spread THROUGHOUT
> the bible (rather than Genesis or the more obvious
> parts)?
>
> Your use of quotes illustrates your preconception
> along with your catagorical statements.

***
Osiris from the Book of the Dead:

I stand before the masters...who were witnesses to resurrection when the corpse of Osiris entered the mountain and the soul of Osiris walked out shining...when he came forth from death, a shining thing, his face white with heat.


Exodus 34:28-35
28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. F112 29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. 30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him. 31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them. 32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai. 33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face. 34 But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded. 35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.



Note the similarity of the concept of Mountain (earlier in this Exodus story). Also, face white with heat or shining in BOTH the Osiris story and this Moses story. Do you think the Osiris story should be taken literally or symbolically? If symbolically, what do YOU think it means?




The way
> you define "creation" makes it quite clear that
> the mere mention of God would "support" your
> fantasy. Obviously someone guessed otherwise why
> are you saying it?

***
I mean that continual elements of the creation (creator or event) are interspersed throughout the bible because, semi-obviously, the scribes were writing to make that point: who IS the creator and what WAS the creation event like and what was the creation event comprised of.


>
> You say:
>
Quote:This symbolic interpretation is rigid and
> consists of elements/attributes that follow a
> distinct pattern.
>
> I agree with the "rigid", although I think
> dogmatic and simple minded are more accurate.

***
Symbolism is simple-minded? That's a new one on me. Ask that of people who see movies like The Day The Earth Stood Still and completely miss the encoded story of Jesus. Seems the writer and producers were right in that NO ONE would notice it (and they didn't).


>
Quote:Understood. I'm saying that even literalist
> interpretations of the Exodus will reveal nothing
> useful.
>
> Than why did you you set up the strawman of
> 'literalism"?

***
Not following. Can you clarify.


>
Quote:The only way you can provide "evidence" of
> said symbolism is from circumstantial evidence.
>
> Translated fantasize and hallucinate. Please
> provide evidence that such esoteric symbolic
> coding was done at all.

***
Without Edmund North's admission to the producers and said producers admission on film (interview), we'd never know symbolism was used at all. The above question can never be answered OBJectively in the affirmative EVEN IF texts were found saying "I, Joe Scribe, used symbolism in my writings such as in books X,Y,Z).


>
>
> You say:
>
Quote:Use crosswalk (bible search) and see for
> yourself.
>
> Giggle, Giggle. Such touching innocence!
>
> You say:
>
Quote:Not when they're talking of "God". That's
> the amazing part. When someone here posted which
> I'd never seen before, I fully expected to see the
> SAME imagery found in the bible. Lo and behold,
> see my sig. line as ONE example amongst many
> different writings.
>
> Ah the true believer mindset. And so innocent! I
> suppose you havn't heard of efforts to combine
> Greek philosophical beliefs with the Bible. Oh
> since you fully expected to find it of course you
> did. "I've found what I'm looking for".

***
Look at the way God is described in the books in earlychristianwritings.com when it is incontrovertible (OBJective) that God is being discussed or is present in a given "scene".

JL


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Shephard of Hermas - 2[79]:2 Now this rock was ancient, and had a gate hewn out of it; but the gate seemed to me to have been hewed out quite recently. And the gate glistened beyond the brightness of the sun, so that I marvelled at the brightness of the gate.