Joanne Wrote:
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> Simon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> If systematic genocide and cultural genocide were
> carried out throughout a large area by literate
> people (who have left records), over a period of
> several centuries, I would expect to see some
> evidence of that.
>
I have to admit this is your subject we're on and you will easily tear me apart on AE history if thats what you want. But you do seem to have an element of bias in favour of the Ramsessides. You assume that their records are all accurate, and that we understand this period and its nuances well. For instance you say he let the country go into neglect ? Is that because he wasn't war like enough in fighting neighbouring states ? Are there any records of territory being lost ("I would expect to see some evidence of that"
) ? Or is that based on the Amarna tablets ? I believe there is dispute about whether or not those indicate any "neglect" as such - and could be due to a different style of leadership that was less militaristic ?
And anyway I'm not trying to discredit Ancient Egypt. It was an amazing civilisation that in so many ways contrasted some of their more "barbaric" neighbours. I don't see much point drifting off this way when this was my post that started it -> [
www.hallofmaat.com]
>
> >
> > This is not too different from the broad
> general
> > statement I made that started this part of
> the
> > conversation.
>
> Your actual example is not too different, but you
> are comparing a specific to a broad general.
> Compare like with like.
>
So what exactly do we compare the catholic church with ???
>
>
> > > Akhenaten was a lone nut,
> > > who had radical ideas concerning
> religion.
> > More
> > > importantly, Egypt suffered politically
> > during his
> > > reign, and there was a real need to
> overcome
> > the
> > > damage that his neglect caused.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Ahhh - so radical new ideas that cause
> upheavals,
> > especially political and spiritual, cause
> concern
> > to the upholders of the status quo ?
>
> There's no evidence that his "radical" ideas
> caused anything. His neglect of his duties and
> his self-indulgent obsession with his own thoughts
> caused problems for his country. Patriots sought
> to restore the country.
>
The victors are usually "the patriots" in history
btw - I'm not on some Amarna happy bent - I have no idea about the chap.
>
>
> >
> > Ah thats just plain ignorant of history.
> Most of
> > the cultures that become big enough to
> become
> > considered A culture, start off by dominating
> and
> > hijacking one or more other cultures.
>
> There's a novel idea for anthropology! A culture
> has to become big enough to be considered a
> culture? I don't think so....
>
I thought we were talking about history ? You don't usually talk about the "stonehenge culture", you talk about the "beaker culture" etc etc
Anyway I think you knew what I meant and are just being difficult... at least I answer all your points and not the ones I think I can win
>
> > Your big
> > thing here because of your cultural bias in
> "South
> > American" culture like you can generalise it
> all
> > into one lump and blame the church. No
> mention of
> > the concept that maybe the Aztecs did more
> > destruction to the possibly more valuable
> > "knowledge" of the Mayans ?
>
> Hopefully, you're kidding, particularly since you
> started off accusing me of ignorance of history.
> I think you need to read up on the conquest, find
> out what Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto, and so many
> others openly admitted doing, or whose "exploits"
> were recorded at the time by their companions.
>
Oh yes those catholic priests! No they weren't looking for gold - they were there purely at the will of the church. Even the film "The Mission" is likely to be less biased than you
And anyway - why you changing the subject. Why is the Aztec "cultural destruction" of the Mayans not a loss to us in a similar way ? Why is anything done by anyone in a culture where the catholic church was the many religion purely the fault of the church, and anything else that happens at any other time in history suddenly something more complex and understandable ? Step back a bit maybe ?
>
> > And what about the culture that the church
> helped
> > develop and foster - the renaisance, the
> > development of science and art and music ???
>
> What's the relevance? Hitler promoted Wagner's
> music. Does that negate the holocaust?
>
>
Ah Joanne I don't even see any point continuing this if your blinkers are so extensive they wrap right around your head like that so you can't even peep out the corner a bit.
Lets just agree to disagree eh ?
Simon