Home of the The Hall of Ma'at on the Internet
Home
Discussion Forums
Papers
Authors
Web Links

May 21, 2024, 7:23 am UTC    
February 08, 2020 12:05PM
Hi Mark,

Thank you for posting your interesting comments.

Quote

It is reasonable to conclude that the east side was built first, as concluded by Maragioglio and Rinaldi, and that the north east corner of the Base Square does not have as perfect a right angle as that of the N.E. corner socket because the north side had an east-west solar alignment based on the equinox. Glen Dash carried out practical work to show how this might have been done very precisely.

The north-west corner of the Base Square is close to a perfect right angle so the west side points to true north better than the east side simply because the east-west parallel was determined more precisely than true north, as apparent from the east side.

The theory of conducting the solar orientation ritual is interesting, but unfortunately it does not correspond to the observed data.
If we consider the data on azimuths separately for each side of such pyramids as the Meidum pyramid (N: -35' 25", S: -23' 36", E: -20' 35", W: -18' 3" [Petrie]), Bent pyramid (N: -7' 30", S: -4' 8", E: -17' 20", W: -11' 49" [Dorner]), Menkaure pyramid (N: +16' 48", S: +12' 57", E: +12' 23", W: ? [Petrie]), then it is difficult to assume the usage of two orientation methods simultaneously (stellar method to determine the N-S axis and solar method for the E-W axis ), which have different accuracy and, therefore, a greater parallelism of the opposite sides would be observed to the detriment of the accuracy of the right angles. (For example, it is difficult to assume for the Meidum pyramid that the stellar and solar methods both gave deviations to the west which were almost the same in absolute value; the same for the Menkaure pyramid and deviations to the east).
No other rituals (other than the 'stretching of the cord' ritual) for orientation and laying of the foundations of the building in ancient sources is not mentioned. It is known for certain that the orientation ritual was carried out at night, because there is mention that a moonless night was chosen for it.
In this regard, assumptions about the usage of the solar method of orientation are more exercises for the mind than correspond to real data.

Quote

I put my model to Prof. Ramsey who advised that he was sure my date of 2840 BC for the foundation (and alignment) of Khufu's Pyramid was incorrect from his radiocarbon studies.

I am not surprised that Prof. Ramsey informed you that your dates did not match his radiocarbon study.
I paid attention to his "Radiocarbon-Based Chronology for Dynastic Egypt" in my article (chapter 7), as well as here and here.
If I had a communication with Prof. Ramsey, I would ask him three questions:
1. Why, in his work, which claims to be a fundamental radiocarbon research for reconstruction of the Egyptian chronology, he used such a small number of samples for the Old Kingdom (only 11, of which 6 were not clearly identified), if he could use the data on samples of short-lived materials (of which there are 37) from the study of Bonani and Haas? By the way, he did use one(!) sample by Haas, and this is noted in the appendix. I wonder if he himself considers the modeling results for the Old Kingdom convincing.
2. Why did he combine the data for the Old and Middle Kingdoms within the framework of one common model, nevertheless separating the New Kingdom into a separate model? (Why didn't he create three different models for the three Kingdoms?)
3. Why didn’t his article contain important information regarding the estimation of the duration of the FIP within the framework of the constructed model? (I ran the Oxcal code published in the appendix to the article and received an estimate of the FIP duration from 80 to 224 years, while the Ramsey's dates for OK supports Beckerath’s assumption about ultra-short FIP - no more than 30 years).

Quote

The east side is so close to the pole that it is reasonable to conclude that the objective was to align the pyramid to the pole of the night sky, not the pole star.

If you focus only on the Khufu Pyramid, then this is a reasonable assumption. If you look at all the pyramids of the Old Kingdom, you cannot explain the orientation of some of them within the framework of the hypothesis of orientation to the true north no matter how hard you try.

Quote

It is not surprising that Egypt's most precisely built pyramid turns out to be the most precisely aligned to true north.

If the quality of the construction and orientation of the pyramids is associated only with the meticulousness of their creators, how do you explain the decline in quality of the pyramids after the construction of the large ones in Giza? Why did builders stop being scrupulous? Why they stoped to build the big pyramids?
I have the explanation.

Quote

It seems very unlikely that Khufu laid the base for Khafre's pyramid because his chosen son finished his boat pit, but chose to build his pyramid elsewhere.

By the way, how do you explain such a large deviation of the Djedefre pyramid to the west? (It is oriented relative to cardinal directions 10 times worse (-48') than the Khufu (-3') and Khafre (-5') pyramids, which were built respectively before and after it). Could it be that the architects temporarily "forgot how" to find the north exactly, and then again "learned"?

Best,
Alex.
Subject Author Posted

Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Hermione December 10, 2019 11:41AM

Re: Sirius, Alpha Draconis and Great Pyramid

Mark Heaton December 14, 2019 02:11PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 29, 2020 03:20PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

cladking January 29, 2020 05:50PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Hans January 29, 2020 07:51PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

cladking January 30, 2020 12:54PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 30, 2020 01:11PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

engbren January 30, 2020 07:25AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 30, 2020 11:59AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

engbren January 31, 2020 03:31AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 31, 2020 06:11AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

engbren February 04, 2020 03:03AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz February 06, 2020 08:29AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

engbren February 11, 2020 07:42AM

Complimentary Theory

engbren February 17, 2020 04:00AM

Re: Complimentary Theory

keeperzz February 17, 2020 04:42PM

Re: Complimentary Theory

engbren February 17, 2020 09:52PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Hermione January 30, 2020 12:35PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 30, 2020 01:17PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Hermione January 30, 2020 03:15PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

robin cook January 31, 2020 12:21PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 31, 2020 06:23PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

robin cook February 01, 2020 05:21PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz February 02, 2020 04:12PM

Re: Star shafts

keeperzz February 05, 2020 10:49AM

Re: Star shafts

cladking February 05, 2020 11:35AM

Re: Star shafts

keeperzz February 06, 2020 03:00PM

Re: Star shafts

GChase February 05, 2020 03:42PM

Re: Dating the pyramid using QC Star shafts

GChase February 05, 2020 05:27PM

Re: Dating the pyramid using the KC star shaft

GChase February 06, 2020 12:06PM

Re: Dating the pyramid using the KC star shaft

Kanga February 07, 2020 05:35AM

Re: Dating the pyramid using QC Star shafts

Kanga February 07, 2020 05:21AM

Re: Dating the pyramid using QC Star shafts

Kanga February 07, 2020 06:01AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 08, 2020 08:22AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 08, 2020 12:41PM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

Kanga February 08, 2020 10:26PM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 09, 2020 08:05AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

Kanga February 10, 2020 12:42AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 10, 2020 04:21AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

Kanga February 10, 2020 07:47AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 10, 2020 09:38AM

Re: Dating the pyramid using QC Star shafts

GChase February 09, 2020 12:33PM

Re: Dating the pyramid using QC Star shafts

Kanga February 10, 2020 01:19AM

Re: Star shafts

keeperzz February 06, 2020 10:31AM

Re: Star shafts

keeperzz February 06, 2020 03:33PM

Re: Star shafts

Hermione February 12, 2020 01:08PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 09, 2020 03:28PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

robin cook February 09, 2020 03:47PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 09, 2020 06:34PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

Kanga February 10, 2020 08:25AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 10, 2020 10:32AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

robin cook February 10, 2020 11:06AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 10, 2020 02:12PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

robin cook February 10, 2020 08:56PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 11, 2020 09:23AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

robin cook February 12, 2020 10:23AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 12, 2020 01:00PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

GChase February 13, 2020 05:06AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 14, 2020 05:07AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

GChase February 14, 2020 04:21PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 15, 2020 01:34PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

Kanga February 10, 2020 05:32AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Kanga February 01, 2020 10:47PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz February 02, 2020 04:39PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Kanga February 07, 2020 05:05AM

Radiocarbon dating for the Old Kingdom

keeperzz February 01, 2020 02:07PM

Re: Radiocarbon dating for the Old Kingdom

keeperzz February 03, 2020 09:31AM

Re: Subsequent Radiocarbon Paper for the Old Kingdom

Mark Heaton February 12, 2020 07:05PM

Re: Subsequent Radiocarbon Paper for the Old Kingdom

keeperzz February 13, 2020 11:52AM

Re: Subsequent Radiocarbon Paper for the Old Kingdom

keeperzz February 13, 2020 03:10PM

Re: Khufu boat

keeperzz February 14, 2020 04:10AM

Re: Khufu boat

Mark Heaton February 15, 2020 12:44PM

Re: Khufu boat

keeperzz February 15, 2020 05:28PM

Re: Khufu boat

Mark Heaton February 16, 2020 03:01PM

Re: The Puzzle of Khafre

GChase February 02, 2020 04:35PM

Re: The Puzzle of Khafre

keeperzz February 03, 2020 05:52AM

Re: The Puzzle of Khafre

GChase February 03, 2020 09:18AM

Re: The Puzzle of Khafre

keeperzz February 03, 2020 09:37AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Mark Heaton February 07, 2020 07:50PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Mark Heaton February 08, 2020 05:47AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

engbren February 08, 2020 06:54AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Mark Heaton February 08, 2020 01:17PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz February 08, 2020 12:05PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Mark Heaton February 08, 2020 03:23PM

Re: Orientation of the pyramids

keeperzz February 09, 2020 12:08PM

Re: Orientation of the pyramids

Mark Heaton February 09, 2020 02:29PM

Re: Short explanation for graphs

keeperzz February 11, 2020 07:49AM

Re: Short explanation for graphs

Mark Heaton February 12, 2020 04:12PM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 03, 2020 10:30AM

Re: Applying the Method

Pistol February 03, 2020 12:45PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 04, 2020 12:35PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 03, 2020 03:46PM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 03, 2020 04:25PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 04, 2020 12:49PM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 04, 2020 01:05PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 04, 2020 01:16PM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 05, 2020 07:08AM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 05, 2020 03:50PM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 05, 2020 04:32PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 06, 2020 10:23AM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 06, 2020 11:51AM

Re: Applying the Method

robin cook February 06, 2020 05:41PM

Re: Applying the Method

Chris Tedder February 06, 2020 01:46PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 07, 2020 01:31PM

Re: Applying the Method

Mark Heaton February 09, 2020 02:10PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 10, 2020 05:45AM

Re: Applying the Method

Kanga February 10, 2020 08:48AM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 10, 2020 11:09AM

Re: Applying the Method

Mark Heaton February 10, 2020 05:39PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 11, 2020 10:11AM

Re: Applying the Method

Mark Heaton February 11, 2020 12:42PM

Re: Applying the Method

Warwick L Nixon February 11, 2020 12:57PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 11, 2020 03:53PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

Mark Heaton February 12, 2020 03:16PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

keeperzz February 13, 2020 08:28AM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

Mark Heaton February 13, 2020 12:37PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

Hermione February 15, 2020 07:59AM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

Mark Heaton February 15, 2020 03:09PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

Hermione February 16, 2020 04:18AM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

Mark Heaton February 16, 2020 03:44PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

Hermione February 16, 2020 06:24PM

Graham Hancock and Precessional Numbers

Hermione February 17, 2020 05:31AM

Re: Graham Hancock and Precessional Numbers

Hans February 17, 2020 01:14PM

Re: Graham Hancock and Precessional Numbers

Hermione February 17, 2020 01:23PM

Re: Graham Hancock and Precessional Numbers

Lee Olsen May 27, 2020 08:37PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

M. Williams February 17, 2020 11:18PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

Hermione February 18, 2020 06:24AM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

M. Williams February 18, 2020 09:50AM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

Hermione February 18, 2020 12:23PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

Hermione February 18, 2020 05:06PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

M. Williams February 27, 2020 10:45PM

Re: Exact calculations for the main graph

keeperzz February 15, 2020 01:06PM

Re: Exact calculations for the main graph

Mark Heaton February 15, 2020 02:28PM

Re: Exact calculations for the main graph

keeperzz February 17, 2020 04:05PM

Re: Exact calculations for the main graph

Mark Heaton February 18, 2020 04:35PM



Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login