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May 5, 2024, 9:19 pm UTC    
October 06, 2007 10:13AM
Hello Anthony,

You wrote, “You start with the placement of the sarcophagus on the west side of the westernmost chamber in the structure. Everything else radiates out from that, conceptually and spiritually.

To which I replied, “Your reply does not answer the question, which was: Any thoughts on the sequence of this planning, i.e. what the architect started with and ended with? ‘

You respond, ‘Yes, it did answer the question... very specifically.’

I pointed out, ‘’You have the sarcophogus being placed "on the west side of the westernmost chamber in the structure."
But this does not, in the case of Khufu's pyramid, explain which chamber was designed first.”

You reply, ‘Yes, it does.’

Sorry Anthony, but it doesn’t.
Obviously, a chamber with a sarcophagus in it is likely to be a burial place.
However, by adding the proviso that the sacophagus would be placed “on the west side of the westernmost chamber in the structure” you created an ambiguity because in fact the Subterranean Chamber is the westernmost chamber in Khufu’s pyramid.

However, you argue, ‘Not originally. The western side of the SC does not appear to be part of the original design. That's why it is still in such condition today.’

Now, this leaves us with the eastern side of the SC as part of the original design.
So, in effect you are saying that you know how long (east-west) the Subterranean Chamber was initially intended to be.
For your hypothesis to stand up, the SC initially had to be less than 20 royal cubits long (the length of the King’s Chamber)
Would you care tell us what that initial measurement was?

BTW, any suggestions as to why the length was, as you appear to be saying, lengthened?
______________________________


I asked you, ‘Was it the Subterranean Chamber, the Queen's Chamber, or the King's Chamber [that was designed first]?

You reply, ‘I am at a loss to understand how this can be asked after my very clear statement above was written and then quoted by you.’

As I have just explained, because the Subterranean Chamber is ‘the westernmost chamber in the structure’ I found your answer to be ambiguous.
And here it comes to mind that perhaps you don’t consider the SC to be ‘in the structure’ even though it is clearly an integral part of the Pyramid.
______________________________


You write, ‘Clearly the burial chamber was the first chamber designed.’

Excellent, a direct unambiguous answer at last – and one I agree with, although for different reasons.
______________________________


I asked, ‘And what followed it?
The remaining two Chambers - but in what sequence?
The Descending Passage?
The Grand Gallery?
The Antechamber?

You reply, ‘Irrelevant. You are looking at this pyramid like it is some kind of radiating mathematical equation.’

It may well be irrelevant in terms of the overall purpose of this Pyramid but this shouldn’t stop you from saying what the design sequence was following the King’s Chamber.
Perhaps it is a case of your not knowing what the sequence was.
No shame in that, Anthony.
However, if you do know what the sequence was, why not share it with us?

I am looking at this Pyramid as a magnificent tomb/monument/cenotaph for or to Khufu.
Its interior design had to have begun with one thing and ended with another.
I am working on a hypothesis that attempts to show what these first and last things could have been.

You write, ‘That is not how the Egyptians looked at it. Ergo, what you see has nothing to do with what they did or why they did it.’

As you have not read my hypothesis, let alone studied it, you are in no position to sensibly make such a comment.
Suffice to say that my hypothesis is not only consistent with the prevailing orthodox views on Khufu’s pyramid in particular and other 4th Dyn. Pyramids in general, but also adds to it.
This is not just my opinion, BTW.
______________________________


I wrote, ‘As for the westernmost chamber, in Khufu's case that is the Subterranean Chamber. Any thoughts how they were going to get an adequate sized coffer in to this Chamber?’

You reply, “The burial chamber was built around the sarcohpagus. Had they been forced to use another chamber due to the early demise of the king, they would have used a different sarcophagus (obviously).

I can demonstrate (though not here and now) how the dimensions of Khufu’s coffer were derived by very simple arithmetical and geometrical means from the floor plan of the King’s Chamber and its position relative to the Pyramid’s North-South axis.
In other words the coffer was designed after the King’s Chamber.
But I do bear in mind, Anthony, that your take on this sarcophagus business is based on the hypothesis that the King’s Chamber was Khufu’s actual burial chamber, whereas I, on the other hand, have good reason to believe that it wasn’t.
______________________________


My understanding of your theory is that if Khufu had died before the Queen’s Chamber had been built, he would have been buried in the Subterranean Chamber.

I have pointed out that it is not possible to get an adequate size granite coffer into the Subterranean Chamber (the Subterranean Passage is only 35.5” high, and there is the awkward Descending Passage-Subterranean Passage junction to contend with) and suggested “Perhaps they planned to carve one out of the bedrock... “

You reply, ‘Limestone would not have been adequate for the job of holding the body of a king.’

I can believe that.
However, if they wouldn’t dare use such ‘poor’ quality material as limestone, and the Sub Chamber is all limestone, what, pray, were the builders planning to do in the event of Khufu snuffing it before the Queen’s Chamber was built?
I wonder if they had a “Flat Pack Self-Assembly Granite Coffer Kit” … smiling smiley

MJ
Subject Author Posted

Passageways in the Pyramids

Sirfiroth September 29, 2007 12:48AM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

fmetrol September 29, 2007 02:08AM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

fmetrol September 29, 2007 07:34PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

MJ Thomas September 29, 2007 12:10PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Ronald September 30, 2007 04:22PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

cladking September 30, 2007 04:40PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Anthony September 30, 2007 04:53PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

MJ Thomas September 30, 2007 07:32PM

One in a hundred is not enough

Anthony October 01, 2007 10:37AM

Re: One in a hundred is not enough

MJ Thomas October 01, 2007 11:51AM

No need for detailed, pre-planning.

Ronald October 01, 2007 04:30PM

Re: No need for detailed, pre-planning.

MJ Thomas October 01, 2007 06:37PM

Re: No need for detailed, pre-planning.

Ronald October 02, 2007 05:53AM

Re: No need for detailed, pre-planning.

Ritva Kurittu October 02, 2007 07:23AM

Re: No need for detailed, pre-planning.

Ronald October 02, 2007 12:35PM

Re: No need for detailed, pre-planning.

Ritva Kurittu October 02, 2007 01:09PM

Re: No need for detailed, pre-planning.

Ronald October 02, 2007 04:19PM

Agreed completely

Anthony October 02, 2007 04:30PM

Re: Agreed completely

MJ Thomas October 02, 2007 04:45PM

Re: Agreed completely

Anthony October 02, 2007 05:26PM

Re: Agreed completely

Ronald October 03, 2007 02:28AM

Re: Agreed completely

Anthony October 03, 2007 05:36AM

Re: Agreed completely

Ronald October 04, 2007 06:17AM

Re: Agreed completely

Anthony October 04, 2007 04:09PM

Note

Hermione October 04, 2007 05:12PM

Re: Agreed completely

MJ Thomas October 03, 2007 02:29AM

Re: Agreed completely

MJ Thomas October 05, 2007 02:13PM

Re: Agreed completely

Anthony October 05, 2007 05:01PM

Re: Agreed completely

MJ Thomas October 06, 2007 10:13AM

Re: Agreed completely

MJ Thomas October 06, 2007 05:30PM

Two posts answered in one

Anthony October 10, 2007 02:29PM

Re: Agreed completely

Ronald October 03, 2007 01:20AM

Re: Agreed completely

Anthony October 03, 2007 05:40AM

Re: Agreed completely

Ritva Kurittu October 03, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Agreed completely

Anthony October 03, 2007 12:25PM

Re: Agreed completely

Ritva Kurittu October 03, 2007 12:56PM

Re: Agreed completely

Ronald October 03, 2007 05:48PM

Respecting the Pyramid Builders

Anthony October 04, 2007 05:04AM

Re: Respecting the Pyramid Builders

Ronald October 04, 2007 06:03AM

Re: Respecting the Pyramid Builders

Anthony October 04, 2007 01:19PM

Re: Respecting the Pyramid Builders

Ronald October 04, 2007 04:05PM

Re: Agreed completely

Ritva Kurittu October 03, 2007 10:02AM

Re: Agreed completely

Ronald October 03, 2007 05:59PM

Re: Agreed completely

Ritva Kurittu October 04, 2007 11:15AM

Re: Agreed completely

Ronald October 04, 2007 12:43PM

Re: Agreed completely

Ritva Kurittu October 04, 2007 02:27PM

Re: Agreed completely

cladking October 04, 2007 03:33PM

Re: Agreed completely

Hermione October 04, 2007 03:46PM

Re: Agreed completely

Anthony October 04, 2007 07:43PM

Re: Agreed completely

cladking October 04, 2007 07:49PM

Re: Agreed completely

Anthony October 05, 2007 05:48AM

Re: Agreed completely

Ritva Kurittu October 05, 2007 10:05AM

Re: Agreed completely

Ronald October 04, 2007 04:47PM

Khufu's redundant pyramid

Anthony October 04, 2007 07:42PM

Re: Khufu's redundant pyramid

Ronald October 05, 2007 08:41AM

Re: Khufu's redundant pyramid

David Johnson October 05, 2007 09:32AM

Re: Khufu's redundant pyramid

Ronald October 05, 2007 05:35PM

Re: Khufu's redundant pyramid

David Johnson October 06, 2007 07:33AM

Re: Khufu's redundant pyramid

Ronald October 05, 2007 05:33PM

Re: Khufu's redundant pyramid

cladking October 05, 2007 06:04PM

Re: Khufu's redundant pyramid

Ronald October 06, 2007 06:42AM

Re: Khufu's redundant pyramid

cladking October 06, 2007 10:11AM

Re: Khufu's redundant pyramid

MJ Thomas October 06, 2007 10:54AM

Re: Khufu's redundant pyramid

Ronald October 06, 2007 05:11PM

Re: Khufu's redundant pyramid

MJ Thomas October 06, 2007 05:40PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

MJ Thomas September 30, 2007 07:10PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Ronald October 01, 2007 05:54AM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

MJ Thomas October 01, 2007 10:38AM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Anthony October 01, 2007 10:48AM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Ronald October 03, 2007 06:21PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Anthony October 04, 2007 05:08AM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Ronald October 04, 2007 10:20AM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Ritva Kurittu October 04, 2007 11:22AM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Ronald October 04, 2007 12:55PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Ritva Kurittu October 04, 2007 02:34PM

Note

Hermione October 04, 2007 02:57PM

Re: Note

Ritva Kurittu October 04, 2007 03:11PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Ronald October 04, 2007 04:33PM

Final Post on the Ad Hoc Pyramid scheme

Anthony October 04, 2007 07:34PM

Re: Final Post on the Ad Hoc Pyramid scheme

Ronald October 05, 2007 02:41AM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Jammer October 02, 2007 12:25PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Anthony September 29, 2007 06:23PM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

Sirfiroth September 30, 2007 12:32AM

Re: Passageways in the Pyramids

MJ Thomas September 30, 2007 05:35AM

Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Anthony September 30, 2007 09:36AM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Sirfiroth September 30, 2007 01:09PM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Anthony September 30, 2007 04:52PM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Sirfiroth September 30, 2007 07:04PM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Anthony September 30, 2007 07:18PM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

MJ Thomas September 30, 2007 08:03PM

Moderator Note

Pete Clarke October 01, 2007 05:26AM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Anthony October 01, 2007 10:40AM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Ritva Kurittu October 01, 2007 11:44AM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Sirfiroth October 02, 2007 04:32PM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Anthony October 02, 2007 05:32PM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

MJ Thomas September 30, 2007 07:20PM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Anthony October 01, 2007 11:01AM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

cladking October 01, 2007 01:21PM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

MJ Thomas October 01, 2007 02:51PM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Rick Baudé October 02, 2007 09:26AM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

MJ Thomas October 02, 2007 04:35PM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Anthony October 02, 2007 06:09PM

Re: Pyramid Resources for Beginners

Anthony October 02, 2007 08:21PM



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