Joe: "For instance, how can we be sure that the reference to sAH in the Cannibal Hymn was not a later addition to an older, already existing text to bring it into line with current beliefs? The bottom line is: we cannot be sure until an older version of that text is discovered that we can compare the PT version to. You can't just take any passage you like from the PTs and extrapolate it back in time just because it supports the OCT, or any other theory."



I agree. Its human nature to search for absolutes, certainties, a black and white world where everything is neatly ordered, clear and simple - a world for spin merchants who don't like 'ifs' and 'perhaps', shades of gray as we find in intelligence reports - much better to promote an air of certainty where the 'enemy' is clearly defined with no doubts to weaken the vision.


Its more a question of what is more or less likely. Its likely that Sah (sAH, 'Orion'), 'father of the gods' in the earliest PTs, was the personification of the large distinctive constellation of Orion, and Sopdet (spdt, 'Sirius') the personification of Sirius, the brightest star in their sky after the sun.

Its also likely these two stellar deities, who were paired together, were known much earlier than the earliest PTs from the end of Dyn 5. After all, Orion and Sirius were crossing the southern part of the sky throughout AE history - they did not just suddenly appear in the sky at the end of Dyn 5, and bearing in mind the overwhelming evidence for the royal funerary / afterlife beliefs that had a significant celestial content, including stars, from very early on in their history, it seems reasonable to infer that Orion and Sirius were recognized.

Few stars / star patterns can be identified with any real confidence from AE, but Sah (sAH, 'Orion' or some part of Orion), Sopdet (spdt, 'Sirius') and 'Striker' (msxtiw, the 'Plough' / 'Big Dipper') are some of the very few that have been identified with some degree of certainty by scholars


The ancient Egyptians from later times believed 'Orion' was recognized in Dyn 4. An intriguing chapter from 'The Book of Coming Forth by Day' (Theban Recension), describes how Khufu's son Hordedef was inspecting the temples in Wenu (wnw, 'Hare-town') where he came across an interesting text which he brought back to his father Khufu. This text was later included in the chapter of knowing all the chapters of going forth by day - it mentions Orion.

You disagree with this account of what the ancient Egyptians themselves believed about their own history - sure it could be pure fiction - its hard to say, but we cannot ignore this small clue, as it could well reflect an old tradition. Hordedef, and Khufu, the main characters, are not fictional - Wenu is a known place - the mention of 'Orion' could also reflect real historical inscriptions in temples that are now destroyed - these texts were not just novels for their amusement, they were a serious matter of life or death to the AE, who believed they ensured a persons survival after death into a celestial paradise. However we cannot be certain one way or another.


'Orion' is attested in the archeological record at the end of Dyn 5, but this is probably only because the text was inscribed in stone within a pyramid which means it had a better chance of surviving for around 4500 years, than writings on papyrus. According to J.P. Allen:

"Although they are first attested in the pyramid of Unis, most of the Pyramid Texts are undoubtedly older. With few exceptions, their grammar is that of a stage of the language that disappeared from secular inscriptions at least fifty years earlier, and the architecture of the pyramid chambers that they reflect came into use at the end of the Fourth Dynasty, more than a hundred years before Unis's time. Some of the texts reflect burial practices that are even older, in earthen graves beneath tombs built of mudbrick. Newer spells that first appear in the later pyramids, however, incorporate features of the contemporary language.

Overall, the Pyramid Texts give the impression of a corpus that had been in use for some time before it was inscribed in Unis's pyramid and one that was continually revised and amplified during the reigns of his successors.............Although the Pyramid Texts of the Old Kingdom were inscribed only in royal tombs, the texts themselves give evidence of a less exclusive use. Many of them were originally in the first person, meant to be spoken by the deceased's spirit and thus not restricted to a particular individual. Those addressed to the deceased by name occasionally preserve indications of a generic original, with directions to the celebrant indicating where the deceased's name was to be inserted. A few spells from the king's pyramids also seem to make reference to the deceased as someone other than the king himself......."



Only fragments of texts that give some clues as to the kings afterlife beliefs have survived in the archeological record before the Pyramid Texts, so its not surprising to find huge gaps. For example the important deities, Geb and Shu, are apparently attested on fragments from a Dyn 3 shrine of Netjerikhet at Iunu. AFAIK, these gods only appear again in the archeological record in the earliest PTs - a gap of about 300 years spanning Dyn 4. It was only by chance these fragments were found in a rubbish pit, and if it was not for this find, we would never know that Geb and Shu were around before the end of Dyn 5.


The bottom line - Orion was probably known much earlier than the PTs, but its not certain - its only a reasonable inference - which is why the core idea of a theory like the OCT cannot be proven.

CT