February 09, 2016 06:28PM
|
Registered: 17 years ago
Posts: 1,019
|
Lee Olsen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DDeden Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > I'm merely using the terms correctly.
>
> Then how did you come up with a modern owl for a
> model?
DDeden: "They were not really fast ground runners, they probably hopped most of the time. They were forest tree-perchers (see big perching claw) that swooped down on ground prey, and probably danced and displayed near ground level. Leopards, owls, fishing cats (Borneo) share some similar traits. "
I claimed owls share some similar traits. Hardly a "model".
>
> Terms are not the issue.
They are the language of science.
First you claimed modern
> ostriches didn't count because they live on the
> savannah today.
I claimed that modern birds including ostriches kiwis and cassowaries lack a long fleshy boney tail, while dino-birds had them.
But "ostrich-like" animals did
> evolve during the Cretaceous,
Did they have long boney fleshy tails, pen feathers, teeth? If so, they I would not refer to them as ostrich-like, but rather as dino-birds.
dense forests or
> not, and given modern ostriches can run fast, on
> the ground without climbing trees to pounce on
> anything, and if their ancestors have the same leg
> structure, balance etc. it seems to me they didn't
> need to climb trees. While the ancestors of
> ostriches came somewhat later, there still wasn't
> African savannahs around yet, so they must have
> evolved in a different environment.
I've never seen an ostrich pounce, its long neck allows it to poke around though.
>
> I don't see anything in the paper about Zs not
> being a fast runner or their mentioning hopping.
> I'm still waiting for you to provide a counter
> paper or some evidence that that Zs were slow,
> tree climbing hopper/pouncers.
Pouncing from above is swift. Climbing isn't, upward flying evolved which changed the structure of the shoulders, just as brachiation did so in apes.
>
> OK, so maybe it will take a while for a counter
> paper to show up, but here was another example I
> linked to:
>
>
> "These proportions imply it could put great long
> strides in and move fast," said Dave Hone, a
> paleontologist based at the Chinese Academy of
> Sciences in Beijing who has been studying the
> skeleton."
Kangaroos, kangaroo rats, kangaroo mice have long lower limb proportions but rarely stride alternatively, they can move very fast.
> Certainly these paleontologists understand
> proportions and if these creature have running
> proportions, why would they hop most of the time
> or perch or pounce?
A long boney fleshy tail is not needed for a running ostrich, but it is for a kangaroo.
[
latimesblogs.latimes.com]
Subject |
Author |
Posted |
|
Khazar-khum |
January 05, 2016 08:34PM |
|
cicely |
January 06, 2016 11:41AM |
|
Jammer |
January 07, 2016 02:39PM |
|
cicely |
January 08, 2016 12:43PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
January 11, 2016 01:25AM |
|
Chris Catignani |
January 09, 2016 10:06AM |
|
Byrd |
January 20, 2016 04:10PM |
|
Chris Catignani |
January 21, 2016 08:33PM |
|
DDeden |
January 11, 2016 11:19AM |
|
Khazar-khum |
January 11, 2016 05:19PM |
|
DDeden |
January 13, 2016 06:30PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 14, 2016 12:31PM |
|
DDeden |
January 16, 2016 03:18PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
January 16, 2016 03:53PM |
|
Jammer |
January 17, 2016 07:43AM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 18, 2016 09:10AM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 18, 2016 09:42AM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 18, 2016 08:57AM |
|
DDeden |
January 20, 2016 03:55PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 21, 2016 09:57AM |
|
DDeden |
January 21, 2016 05:00PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 21, 2016 10:41PM |
|
DDeden |
January 22, 2016 11:28AM |
|
DDeden |
January 22, 2016 11:28AM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 29, 2016 11:15AM |
|
DDeden |
February 29, 2016 06:46PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 29, 2016 09:41PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 18, 2016 08:33AM |
|
DDeden |
July 22, 2016 12:25PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 22, 2016 12:33PM |
|
DDeden |
July 23, 2016 12:42PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 23, 2016 07:08PM |
|
DDeden |
July 24, 2016 12:33PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 24, 2016 03:04PM |
|
DDeden |
July 27, 2016 04:46PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 27, 2016 07:47PM |
|
DDeden |
July 28, 2016 10:51AM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 28, 2016 01:08PM |
|
DDeden |
July 29, 2016 11:54AM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 29, 2016 05:17PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 22, 2016 12:51PM |
|
DDeden |
July 23, 2016 12:40PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
July 23, 2016 02:10PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 23, 2016 06:54PM |
|
DDeden |
July 24, 2016 12:29PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
July 24, 2016 02:54PM |
|
DDeden |
July 28, 2016 10:42AM |
|
Rick Baudé |
July 28, 2016 12:38PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
July 28, 2016 01:54PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 24, 2016 03:13PM |
|
DDeden |
July 28, 2016 10:56AM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 28, 2016 12:38PM |
|
DDeden |
July 30, 2016 12:57PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 30, 2016 01:24PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 28, 2016 01:15PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 22, 2016 01:24PM |
|
DDeden |
January 22, 2016 12:51PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 22, 2016 07:19PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
January 22, 2016 08:05PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 23, 2016 08:27AM |
|
Khazar-khum |
January 25, 2016 03:58PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 25, 2016 09:12PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
January 26, 2016 05:01PM |
|
DDeden |
January 23, 2016 02:44PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 23, 2016 10:48PM |
|
DDeden |
January 25, 2016 06:59PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 26, 2016 11:53AM |
|
DDeden |
January 27, 2016 02:03PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 27, 2016 08:19PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
January 28, 2016 02:37PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 03:16PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 31, 2016 04:39PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 05:23PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
January 31, 2016 08:59PM |
|
DDeden |
February 01, 2016 06:51PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 01, 2016 12:03AM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 27, 2016 08:46PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 27, 2016 09:56PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 28, 2016 12:13AM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 03:40PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 31, 2016 03:57PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 04:30PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 31, 2016 04:32PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 04:42PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 31, 2016 04:47PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 05:26PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 31, 2016 05:57PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 31, 2016 07:41PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
January 31, 2016 09:03PM |
|
DDeden |
February 02, 2016 07:06PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 02, 2016 09:32PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
February 02, 2016 09:39PM |
|
DDeden |
February 03, 2016 06:56PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 03, 2016 10:20PM |
|
DDeden |
February 04, 2016 06:50PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 04, 2016 10:02PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 31, 2016 04:51PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 05:27PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 03:38PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 31, 2016 04:02PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 04:39PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 31, 2016 04:49PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 05:31PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
January 31, 2016 09:05PM |
|
DDeden |
February 01, 2016 06:44PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
February 01, 2016 06:49PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
February 01, 2016 08:53PM |
|
DDeden |
February 02, 2016 06:59PM |
|
Jammer |
February 03, 2016 10:49AM |
|
DDeden |
February 03, 2016 07:03PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 03, 2016 10:43PM |
|
DDeden |
February 04, 2016 07:11PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 04, 2016 10:07PM |
|
DDeden |
February 06, 2016 03:43PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 05:28PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 28, 2016 09:37AM |
|
DDeden |
January 29, 2016 04:56PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 29, 2016 05:15PM |
|
DDeden |
January 30, 2016 05:41PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 31, 2016 03:46PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 05:35PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 31, 2016 11:21PM |
|
DDeden |
February 02, 2016 03:26PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 02, 2016 05:10PM |
|
DDeden |
February 02, 2016 07:12PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 02, 2016 09:51PM |
|
DDeden |
February 03, 2016 07:07PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 03, 2016 11:03PM |
|
Jammer |
February 01, 2016 01:31PM |
|
DDeden |
February 01, 2016 07:49PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 01, 2016 09:37PM |
|
Jammer |
February 02, 2016 12:17PM |
|
DDeden |
February 02, 2016 07:21PM |
|
Jammer |
February 03, 2016 10:53AM |
|
DDeden |
February 02, 2016 05:48PM |
|
DDeden |
February 02, 2016 07:18PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 02, 2016 10:26PM |
|
Jammer |
February 03, 2016 11:00AM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 03, 2016 01:56PM |
|
DDeden |
February 03, 2016 07:19PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 03, 2016 11:51PM |
|
DDeden |
February 03, 2016 07:12PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 03, 2016 11:21PM |
|
DDeden |
February 04, 2016 07:20PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 04, 2016 10:31PM |
|
DDeden |
February 06, 2016 03:51PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 06, 2016 05:42PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 03:35PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
January 31, 2016 04:08PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 05:36PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 31, 2016 04:21PM |
|
DDeden |
January 31, 2016 05:43PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
January 31, 2016 09:52PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 01, 2016 06:46PM |
|
Jammer |
February 02, 2016 12:18PM |
|
DDeden |
February 02, 2016 07:42PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 03, 2016 12:42AM |
|
DDeden |
February 04, 2016 07:25PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 04, 2016 10:45PM |
|
DDeden |
February 06, 2016 03:56PM |
|
DDeden |
February 02, 2016 03:22PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 02, 2016 04:42PM |
|
DDeden |
February 02, 2016 07:39PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
February 02, 2016 09:43PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 02, 2016 11:37PM |
|
DDeden |
February 04, 2016 07:42PM |
|
Allan Shumaker |
February 04, 2016 10:13PM |
|
DDeden |
February 08, 2016 05:22PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 04, 2016 11:42PM |
|
DDeden |
February 06, 2016 04:51PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 06, 2016 05:15PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 06, 2016 06:17PM |
|
DDeden |
February 07, 2016 05:50PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 07, 2016 06:16PM |
|
DDeden |
July 18, 2016 12:11PM |
|
DDeden |
February 07, 2016 05:46PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 07, 2016 06:07PM |
|
DDeden |
July 18, 2016 12:13PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 22, 2016 11:43AM |
|
DDeden |
July 22, 2016 12:17PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 27, 2016 08:24PM |
|
DDeden |
February 08, 2016 02:51PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 08, 2016 04:13PM |
|
DDeden |
February 08, 2016 05:17PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 08, 2016 07:41PM |
|
DDeden |
February 09, 2016 06:28PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 09, 2016 07:59PM |
|
DDeden |
February 10, 2016 01:25PM |
|
Jammer |
February 10, 2016 01:37PM |
|
DDeden |
February 11, 2016 04:33PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 11, 2016 05:10PM |
|
DDeden |
July 18, 2016 12:10PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 23, 2016 07:01PM |
|
DDeden |
July 24, 2016 12:40PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 24, 2016 02:58PM |
|
DDeden |
July 27, 2016 04:45PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 27, 2016 07:15PM |
|
DDeden |
July 28, 2016 10:20AM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 29, 2016 05:15PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 10, 2016 04:26PM |
|
DDeden |
February 11, 2016 04:54PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
February 11, 2016 05:49PM |
|
DDeden |
February 28, 2016 05:49PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
June 15, 2016 08:22AM |
|
DDeden |
July 10, 2016 01:11PM |
|
DDeden |
March 01, 2016 02:42PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
March 01, 2016 03:56PM |
|
DDeden |
June 14, 2016 06:30PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
June 15, 2016 09:12AM |
|
DDeden |
June 15, 2016 06:37PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
June 15, 2016 10:20PM |
|
DDeden |
June 17, 2016 01:03PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
June 21, 2016 04:27PM |
|
DDeden |
June 17, 2016 01:36PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
June 21, 2016 05:07PM |
|
DDeden |
July 05, 2016 04:41PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
July 05, 2016 10:16PM |
|
DDeden |
July 07, 2016 03:44PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 08, 2016 10:22AM |
|
Khazar-khum |
July 08, 2016 03:10PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 08, 2016 06:56PM |
|
DDeden |
July 09, 2016 11:50AM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 10, 2016 09:58AM |
|
DDeden |
July 10, 2016 01:09PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 11, 2016 07:58AM |
|
DDeden |
July 11, 2016 04:22PM |
|
DDeden |
July 10, 2016 02:24PM |
|
DDeden |
July 11, 2016 04:25PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 12, 2016 07:53AM |
|
DDeden |
July 12, 2016 11:25AM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 13, 2016 07:21AM |
|
DDeden |
July 15, 2016 11:16AM |
|
Khazar-khum |
July 15, 2016 01:59PM |
|
DDeden |
July 17, 2016 01:13PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 16, 2016 07:39AM |
|
Khazar-khum |
July 17, 2016 11:35AM |
|
DDeden |
July 17, 2016 01:14PM |
|
DDeden |
July 17, 2016 01:14PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 18, 2016 08:13AM |
|
DDeden |
July 18, 2016 12:05PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 22, 2016 12:44PM |
|
DDeden |
July 23, 2016 12:37PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 23, 2016 06:52PM |
|
Khazar-khum |
July 24, 2016 02:57PM |
|
Rick Baudé |
July 24, 2016 08:29PM |
|
DDeden |
July 29, 2016 11:54AM |
|
Khazar-khum |
July 29, 2016 01:34PM |
|
DDeden |
July 30, 2016 12:11PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 30, 2016 12:59PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 29, 2016 05:01PM |
|
DDeden |
July 30, 2016 12:14PM |
|
Lee Olsen |
July 30, 2016 01:05PM |
|
DDeden |
July 09, 2016 11:48AM |
|
DDeden |
June 17, 2016 01:12PM |
|
Hermione |
July 30, 2016 05:17PM |
Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed.