> > "Please note that I have never said that it is/was engineered in the same exact
> > fashion in Nature!"
>
> Essentially, thats what you're saying. That just because something can be designed now,
> it must serve as undeniable proof that it was engineered in the past. That is not
> logical reasoning.

Again, I never said that, including the "undeniable proof", but it is still a potential "logic" conclusion! Obviously you must not understand logic !!!

If can design to day, then assuming some continuity of sorts and not a loss of knowledge, that means that I can also design tomorrow. This one is very much straight and forward logic ! However, I do agree with you that applying it to the past time continuum is not as straight forward since one does need to assume a repeating cycle, which, of course, I do !!!

> > "Say what!?"
>
> I said intelligent design and creationism is intellectually lazy and with no logical
> foundation.

That is boggus and irrational at best!

> It ignores science and every piece of evidence gathered since the beginning of the
> human endeavor to gain scientific understanding. It is based on a desire to comfort
> insecurities, not objective scientific reasoning.

Then maybe your "scientific reasoning" needs to be re-ajusted since DE has already been falsified! So, people that still hang on to it must do it in a "desire to comfort inseccurities and not objective scientific reasoning"!

> >"I have no idea what you are talking about!? Who is attributing those laws to "God
> > magic"!!?? This makes no sense at all to me! Maybe you've got me confused with
> > someone else!!!"
>
> What created the creator?

That is the same question like: what created life? and DE makes up a story on that based on a bunch of fantasies with no scientific evidence!!! LOL

> A proponent of creationism or ID will eventually have to come to the conclusion I gave
> above.

Those were meaningless conclusions!!!

> If god is not the manifestion of all physical laws, then he created them. God magic.

This is reverse twisted logic and more meaningless conclusions!

It would be more like: Physical laws are a manifestation of God...

In terms who/what created who/what is certainly not magic! BTW, if you go see a magic show, it is only you and the others that don't know how the trick is done who are being fooled!!!

> > "WOW!!! Then that would be an answer since you are stating with so much "authority"
> > that "nobody" can ever know the answer!
> >
> > Either case, please tell us since when do you "speak" for everybody!? I certainly
> > did not assign or ellect you to be my spokesperson!!!"
>
> We can't know the answer. Its impossible. We can guess but even those guesses are
> utterly without any evidence backing them.

I am sorry, but just because you don't understand the "magic trick" does not imply that the "magician" and all others also don't know it! Man, what kind of generic logic do you have?

> Before the Big Bang...

You don't even konw that there was a big bang! You are just guessing!!!

> nobody can know what existed, and nobody can know or understand the "reason" for its
> occurance because the laws we know only came into existance with that occurance.

More reverse twisted logic! Just because you don't know does not also mean that all others also don't know!!! Essentially, you are just projecting your own personal reality and limitations into all others. Man, that is very twisted!!!

> There isn't a need for cause and effect because that relationship only came into being
> with the beginning of the physical universe.

So who created or made the beginning of the physical Universe?

> > >and those laws didn't exist before the Big Bang,
> >
> > Double WOW!!! and "exactly" how do you know that!?"
>
> Because the universe within which those laws operate and depend on did not exist.

..and exactly what kind of evidence do you have on this!? Do you just like to make stuff up or you just want to believe in a "big bang" theory because you read it in a book?

> > > nor is our understanding of how those laws operate relevent to the "cause" of
> > > their creation.
> >
> > Say what!? Then who/what/when/how these laws got created or originated is just
> > irrelevant to you!? Talk about "magic" (pooofff -- here's a rabbit from the hat)... "
>
> No, just impossible to know.

Again, projecting limitations to others! but, either case, if it impossible for you to know, then how come you just make up evidence about existence!? Like a big bang, etc?

who created or made this so called big bang?

and what was there before this so called big bang and who created or made that?

and what was before, before that and who made that?

See, I can play the same silly game with your theories...

-wirelessguru1
The Invisible Universe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2005 03:32PM by lobo-hotei.