February 17, 2005 08:17PM
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Registered: 19 years ago
Posts: 8,618
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Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Joanne,
>
> I will repeat again that there is a profound
> difference between what you may read on the
> internet or even second or third hand accounts of
> these things and those that have been filtered
> through European outlooks.
It's not relevant to the point I keep trying to make...I am looking specifically at your approach to this. Not to be critical, just to make a point.
Look at what the
> Spanish did to the stories about Viracocha for
> example. You seem to want to presume that
> skinwalkers are not human, have supernatural gifts
> that permit them to run on four legs, have glowing
> demonic eyes and shapeshift into animals.
Again, not at all. The fact that you seem to be forcing some "either/or" on the phenomena is what seems Western/European. You seem to be saying they are either human or supernatural. What about a third or even a fourth possibility?
> You cannot
> pick and choose between myths and stories about
> skinwalkers in order to say that any observation
> that is against a supernatural explanation in
> regards to skinwalkers is somehow a practical
> western explanation.
Once again -- and for the last time, this is
NOT my opinion, and not what I've tried to say here.
To those who haven't seen
> them and only heard of them, they are
> "supernatural". To those who have seen them and
> on many occasions, they are human. This from
> inside the tribe itself.
There's your dichotomy again...
> Western civilization describes priests as being
> "men of God" or being filled with God's blessing
> enough to wipe away sins if need be. Just because
> some say that they are "men of God", however, does
> not make it so. They are associated with God.
> Big difference. Skinwalkers are associated with
> Coyote and have practices that mimic Coyote,
> himself. If the overnight granting of gifts was
> the source, then why would you have references
> within the Navajo tribe itself of skinwalkers
> being trained for years and years in their ways.
Priests and medicine men are trained for years and years in their ways as well.
> More importantly, if they were supernatural and
> filled with Coyote power then one would expect
> that Navajos wouldn't fire upon them at all.
Based on what you say here, I think the problem is that you do not understand the animal powers.
> If
> they killed or injured one, they wouldn't be just
> facing other skinwalkers' wrath but Coyote's as
> well. You see anything that contradicts this as
> being a western explanation based hypothesis. You
> are forgetting that this information is coming
> from Navajo sources and has been passed on from
> generation to generation.
I'm not forgetting anything. Stephanie, you are either not understanding me (but not trying to clarify) or you're twisting to my words to avoid dealing with the subject. I dislike strawman arguments. I don't like endless repeating myself and getting nowhere. I guess, like Teacup, I'm finished with this.
Subject |
Author |
Posted |
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Stephanie |
February 14, 2005 07:51PM |
|
Joanne |
February 15, 2005 10:46AM |
|
Damian Walter |
February 15, 2005 10:55AM |
|
Joanne |
February 15, 2005 11:06AM |
|
premalatha balan |
February 15, 2005 11:13AM |
|
Joanne |
February 15, 2005 11:24AM |
|
premalatha balan |
February 15, 2005 11:32AM |
|
Joanne |
February 15, 2005 11:39AM |
|
Damian Walter |
February 15, 2005 12:22PM |
|
Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 11:40AM |
|
Joanne |
February 15, 2005 12:02PM |
|
Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 12:56PM |
|
Joanne |
February 15, 2005 01:56PM |
|
cicely |
February 15, 2005 02:16PM |
|
Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 02:45PM |
|
Joanne |
February 16, 2005 07:07AM |
|
Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 02:39PM |
|
Joanne |
February 16, 2005 07:15AM |
|
Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 03:11PM |
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teacup |
February 15, 2005 11:32AM |
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Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 12:18PM |
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cicely |
February 15, 2005 12:29PM |
|
Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 01:08PM |
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teacup |
February 15, 2005 12:39PM |
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Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 01:19PM |
|
teacup |
February 15, 2005 01:16PM |
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Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 01:24PM |
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Sam |
February 15, 2005 08:32PM |
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Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 08:46PM |
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teacup |
February 15, 2005 08:48PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 01:52AM |
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teacup |
February 16, 2005 05:20AM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 11:30AM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 11:45AM |
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cicely |
February 16, 2005 12:09PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 12:22PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 04:37PM |
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premalatha balan |
February 16, 2005 12:24PM |
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teacup |
February 16, 2005 12:51PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 03:37PM |
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Doug Weller |
February 16, 2005 07:54AM |
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Sam |
February 16, 2005 08:52PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 10:27PM |
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Sam |
February 17, 2005 04:05AM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 12:20PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 12:54PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 01:09PM |
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Sam |
February 15, 2005 09:07PM |
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teacup |
February 15, 2005 09:19PM |
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Sam |
February 15, 2005 09:43PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 02:02AM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 16, 2005 05:05AM |
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Joanne |
February 16, 2005 07:23AM |
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cicely |
February 16, 2005 09:54AM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 16, 2005 10:22AM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 10:45AM |
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cicely |
February 16, 2005 10:48AM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 04:18PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 04:11PM |
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Joanne |
February 16, 2005 04:33PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 05:53PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 06:15PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 11:24PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 11:49PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 10:40AM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 12:39PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 01:05PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 01:34PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 17, 2005 01:43PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 02:06PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 17, 2005 02:18PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 02:54PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 12:23PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 17, 2005 12:40PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 01:41PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 10:36AM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 03:51PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 17, 2005 12:06PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 12:58PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 01:07PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 01:24PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 17, 2005 01:17PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 17, 2005 01:54PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 10:51AM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 04:25PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 04:30PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 05:25PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 11:13PM |
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Sam |
February 17, 2005 03:35AM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 17, 2005 04:45AM |
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Sam |
February 17, 2005 05:33AM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 17, 2005 12:40PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 01:16PM |
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lobo-hotei |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 02:30PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 17, 2005 02:47PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 03:01PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 17, 2005 04:23PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 17, 2005 04:26PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 17, 2005 04:32PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
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lobo-hotei |
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Stephanie |
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Doug Weller |
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 05:38PM |
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Lee |
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Lee |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 03:59PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 03:48PM |
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 12:13AM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 18, 2005 12:15AM |
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Joanne |
February 18, 2005 08:30AM |
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 11:44AM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 11:10AM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 01:20PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 03:35PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 04:19PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 06:04PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 17, 2005 06:56PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 07:05PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 08:17PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 10:58PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 12:19PM |
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 02:30PM |
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cicely |
February 18, 2005 02:53PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 03:00PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 18, 2005 03:28PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 03:34PM |
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Joanne |
February 18, 2005 06:16PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 02:56PM |
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 03:10PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 03:12PM |
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cicely |
February 18, 2005 03:14PM |
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Doug Weller |
February 18, 2005 03:35PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 18, 2005 03:40PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 03:42PM |
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Doug Weller |
February 18, 2005 03:43PM |
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Joanne |
February 18, 2005 06:22PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 18, 2005 06:38PM |
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Doug Weller |
February 18, 2005 06:54PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 19, 2005 03:55AM |
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 04:25PM |
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Joanne |
February 18, 2005 06:12PM |
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stryfe |
February 18, 2005 08:57PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 19, 2005 03:56AM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 01:31PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 19, 2005 01:55PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 02:13PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 19, 2005 03:22PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 03:39PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 19, 2005 03:46PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 03:59PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 03:57PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 05:36AM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 17, 2005 04:49PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 05:17PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 17, 2005 04:46PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 05:15PM |
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stryfe |
February 18, 2005 06:30PM |
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Tommi Huhtamaki |
February 18, 2005 06:39PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 18, 2005 06:39PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 02:31PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 03:06PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 03:23PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 04:13PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 04:50PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 04:54PM |
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cicely |
February 19, 2005 04:59PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 05:00PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 19, 2005 05:25PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 05:32PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 05:46PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 05:54PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:00PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 05:54PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 19, 2005 05:59PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:11PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 19, 2005 06:38PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:45PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 06:47PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 19, 2005 06:55PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 06:17PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:36PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 07:04PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 19, 2005 07:09PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 07:24PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 05:04PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 05:44PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 05:20PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 05:27PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 05:48PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 06:05PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 06:11PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:47PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:42PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 06:54PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 04:52PM |
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Sam |
February 19, 2005 06:05PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:26PM |
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Sam |
February 19, 2005 07:04PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 07:34PM |
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Sam |
February 19, 2005 09:47PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 06:29PM |