Joanne Wrote:
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>
> Teacup summed it all up better than I. I've known
> Indians who have a modern Western POV, and some
> modern "Western" people who can understand
> traditional thinking better than some Indians.
> It's not who you are but your methodology that I'm
> questioning here. And Teacup has put things more
> clearly than I did.

I understand what you are saying and in fact, it sums up my inlaws and I quite well. A number of my inlaws are "westernized" but retain a good deal of traditional belief. Some are quite traditional. Some are totally westernized. We pretty much have the full range in our family, lol. Although I am caucasian, my inlaws have recognized a great deal of Navajo within me. Perhaps it is out of love but I will say that I have grasped many of the traditions and concepts easily and it is like home for me. As I told Teacup, it is very hard to disperse this kind of information on a messageboard because it is limiting. If I were writing a book, there would be no problem with writing out more detailed information that would be of benefit as to why I came to my conclusions. As it is a messageboard and very long posts tend to wear the patience of many readers, I am tackling it in a relatively short presentation of information and then answering questions and giving more information as needed in the course of the discussion.
>
> That is not my point, though. I happen to dislike
> scientism intensely. I am convinced that there are
> things beyond science. I don't have a problem
> discussing such things, speculating about them,
> etc. But science has limits in these areas.
> That's all.

I dislike scientism to an extent as well but I also perceive that there are times where it definitely has applications. As are you, I am convinced that there are things that are beyond what we consider science. For instance, the bit of information that the medicine man knew that my husband and I didn't tell anyone was that there seemed to be a spirit in the house that we were living in. We didn't say anything about it because our daughter, a baby at the time, seemed to see it regularly and interact with it. We figured if there was something there, it didn't intend us any harm. We are certain that there was something in that house because of multiple instances of very strange phenomena occurred as well. Like the distinct sound of somebody rapping on the windows and there was nobody there. We reported this to noone and only my husband and I knew about it. We had moved out of that house about two months before the crystal gazing ceremony and the blessing way. However, the medicine man, during the crystal gazing ceremony, smiled often at our daughter as he spoke of a spirit who had attached itself to us and had been from our previous home. How he knew that there was something odd there was beyond me and his statements shocked my husband and I entirely. He also said that the house stood empty and would stand empty for a long time. We moved out of that house almost a 2 years ago and it is still vacant, which is significant considering the massive housing shortage on the navajo reservation. Can science explain these things sufficiently? No, I don't think so. So, there are things that are very hard to explain and probably shouldn't even be attempted.

>
> What you describe (partly snipped) is terrorism.
> If it's inflicted by people with some goal in
> mind, and socially sanctioned (by being tolerated
> in some ways), I suppose I would try to resolve
> that part of it within the society's methods.
> That's part of why I mentioned my professor's
> tale. That was what worked for him.

Yes, it is exactly terrorism. These aren't critters roaming about without any purpose. When they have their sights set on someone, they continue until counteraction is taken. Blessing ways have a bit of an expiration date so they will return. It's an ongoing cycle. In a way, it is socially sanctioned because of the taboos. Because they are considered to be totally supernatural by many, the police just aren't called like they probably should be. Why would someone call the police to report a supernatural creature roaming the premises and what would the police be able to do? However, to even suggest that the navajo are sanctioning skinwalker activity would be an absolutely repugnant idea. The Navajo view skinwalkers with intense shame, embarassment and revulsion.
>
> However, the supernatural issue is complex IMO.
> One of the things I particularly dislike about
> scientism is the false confidence it gives. Using
> science to analyze or explain the skinwalker is a
> way to control or manage them, to have power over
> them, ins't it? What you can name, define, etc.,
> you control. The question is: is that truly
> possible? If so, is that your goal? Or is your
> goal to make peace with them and stop the attacks?
> Can that be done?

Scientism can give a false confidence. However, after seeing skinwalkers at work and hearing all the stories, I do not feel anymore safe. On the contrary, I feel even more threatened. With many of the stories floating around on the reservation, one gets an idea that anybody could become a skinwalker and it seems to lessen their abilities in a way. On the contrary, knowing that they will have been trained as heavily--if not more--than a medicine man from early childhood is absolutely terrifying. Skinwalkers are described as being malevolent and viscious. Look at what was terrorizing us: a woman, a man and two children. Now, what are these children taught to feel about others within the human race (skinwalkers are equal opportunity terrorists that will victimize anyone that they chose irrespective of gender, race and religion) in order to do these things? We're talking about people who are raised to be malevolent, vicious and filled with hatred from the start of their earliest childhood memories. I think that's SCARY (add in a few expletives and more colorful words and you have the correct emphasis LOL).

As far as the goals of my husband and I, we both have multiple reasons for attempting this. One is education. Like I've mentioned a couple times now, ignorance and disbelief put me in danger though I am sure if my skinwalker wanted to physically harm me in a direct manner, it would've had no problems. This is information that is not readily available to those outside the Navajo tribe and there are many who could potentially benefit from it. Just being aware can give the necessary alertness that one needs. I also hope, personally, that it would make some peace as well. They may be so damned by now that they would never become part of the tribe again nor choose to be a part of it again but perhaps just knowing that they are remembered as being as revered as medicine men once and what they originally were might be nice for a change.

Stephanie




In every man there is something wherein I may learn of him, and in that I am his pupil.--Ralph Waldo Emerson