February 17, 2005 05:15PM
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Moderator
Registered: 19 years ago
Posts: 4,143
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Ritva Kurittu Wrote:
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> Just a few thoughs about this so far.
>
> I don't know what the original name for a
> skinwalker is, but I see the name meaning somebody
> who walks covered only in a skin and not somebody
> who only has his own skin on his back (i.e.
> naked).
The Navajo name for skinwalkers (pardon the spelling--Navajo is a pain for that) yenaldlooshi. This word means a great deal more than just "skinwalker". A quick definition is he that walks on all fours. A longer definition is something like "he who skulks here and there on all fours at night in skins". I have a Navajo friend who is very good at translation (he knows and understands all the little nuances) that I have asked to translate it for me as well as possible with all the little nuances. He was the one who gave the initial longer translation to us.
> According to old Native stories (I don't know if
> they are Navajo or not), when a human being takes
> a skin and wears it, he/she gets some of the
> powers of the animal the skin belonged to. In
> other words, it seems to my untrained eye, that we
> are here in the presence of a group of people who
> are trying to assimilate (or make an impression of
> doing so) to the coyotes.
Yes, the main skin is coyote but they will wear other animal skins to gain those animal's attributes as well. They try to mimic the animal as much as possible as well.
> AFAIK the coyote is regarded as an animal that is
> resourceful and a survivor, not to talk about
> their silent wisdom and knowledge (in the mytho
> they gave the fire to humans etc.). At the same
> time, it is an animal that is reputed to represent
> the dark side of the witchcraft, and as a coyote
> (the animal) does eat rotten meat and therefore
> does frequent places of death, it serves the
> reputation rather well. This detail also makes
> them repulsive: they are dirty and smell bad. And
> therefore left outside the circle of other
> animals, as far as animals in general are
> considered. This makes a very powerful
> combination!
Yep.
The coyote also is a harbringer of bad luck for the Navajo. A coyote crossing your path from a certain direction means that bad luck is going to come your way. Coyote from the lores is a trickster. Not always bad but definitely gets up to no good and has a tendency to be really naughty.
>
> In other words, if a person would want to choose a
> form that would be scary to the Navajo, he/she
> would very probably choose the coyote. Not only
> are they scray, but also partly divine in spirit,
> or that is at least the impression I have. Why
> else the existence of the Coyote Blessing
> Ceremony?
Yes, they become associated with Coyote, himself.
> What works here nicely to the advantage of the
> skinwalkers is the very fact, that they are taboo!
> Nobody talks about them, but stories are told.I'm
> not saying that they do not have any unusual
> powers, I know many of the medicine men and
> whitchdoctors do, but they have another advantage
> in the fear and old old stories told from
> generation to generation.
Yep. The taboo prevents any major dispersal of information from happening. What ends up happening is one person who had the experience tells another who in turn, retells it and omits the name of the original source of the information
out of deference to protect the original teller. So, you can hear alot of stories but the original story has probably suffered a great deal in the passing along. Much like how urban legends are formed.
>The human perception
> cannot always be fully trusted when in presence of
> something very scary or even taboo.
Very true. When I saw the white furred skinwalker, I thought it was a cat. Then it seemed to look like a dog after it rolled around for a bit--
even after I knew that it was a skinwalker. We can see a magic show and know that the magician is fooling our eyes to make us think that he has done something amazing but it doesn't stop us from being amazed.
> But what really intrigues me here is, who are the
> skinwalkers? It seems obvious, that they are
> paying some sort of revenge, since everybody is
> not visited. OK, so they might sometimes be paid
> to do it, but what makes them start? Even knowing
> that they will become outcasts. Or is it the other
> way around: an outcast becomes a skinwalker to get
> his/her revenge?
It's quite possible that within the greater "witch" community, there would be outcasts that entered into it for various reasons. However, to become a full skinwalker, one couldn't just up and decide to become one by putting on a skin. This would take intensive training from childhood--just like a medicine man. But it's possible that the ones that run around on two legs and wearing animal skins could be outcasts let in. Never know.
I think that they are seeking revenge as a whole. In one of the stories, the full skinwalkers were expelled from the tribe and if the witch purge had anything to do with them, they had some of their numbers killed as well. I'm sure that they are pretty sore about that. It could be all of the above, Ritva. The big thing is that nobody can know for sure why they do what they do and why they bother who they do.
Stephanie
In every man there is something wherein I may learn of him, and in that I am his pupil.--Ralph Waldo Emerson
Subject |
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Stephanie |
February 14, 2005 07:51PM |
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Joanne |
February 15, 2005 10:46AM |
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Damian Walter |
February 15, 2005 10:55AM |
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Joanne |
February 15, 2005 11:06AM |
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Joanne |
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February 15, 2005 12:22PM |
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Stephanie |
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Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 12:56PM |
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Joanne |
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cicely |
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Stephanie |
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Joanne |
February 16, 2005 07:07AM |
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Stephanie |
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Joanne |
February 16, 2005 07:15AM |
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Stephanie |
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teacup |
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Stephanie |
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cicely |
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Stephanie |
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teacup |
February 15, 2005 12:39PM |
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Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 01:19PM |
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teacup |
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Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 01:24PM |
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Sam |
February 15, 2005 08:32PM |
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Stephanie |
February 15, 2005 08:46PM |
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teacup |
February 15, 2005 08:48PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 01:52AM |
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teacup |
February 16, 2005 05:20AM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 11:30AM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 11:45AM |
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cicely |
February 16, 2005 12:09PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 12:22PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 04:37PM |
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premalatha balan |
February 16, 2005 12:24PM |
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teacup |
February 16, 2005 12:51PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 03:37PM |
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Doug Weller |
February 16, 2005 07:54AM |
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Sam |
February 16, 2005 08:52PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 10:27PM |
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Sam |
February 17, 2005 04:05AM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 12:20PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 12:54PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 01:09PM |
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Sam |
February 15, 2005 09:07PM |
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teacup |
February 15, 2005 09:19PM |
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Sam |
February 15, 2005 09:43PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 02:02AM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 16, 2005 05:05AM |
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Joanne |
February 16, 2005 07:23AM |
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cicely |
February 16, 2005 09:54AM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 16, 2005 10:22AM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 10:45AM |
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cicely |
February 16, 2005 10:48AM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 04:18PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 04:11PM |
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Joanne |
February 16, 2005 04:33PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 05:53PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 06:15PM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 11:24PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 11:49PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 10:40AM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 12:39PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 01:05PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 01:34PM |
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lobo-hotei |
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Stephanie |
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lobo-hotei |
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Stephanie |
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Stephanie |
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Katherine Reece |
February 17, 2005 12:40PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 01:41PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 10:36AM |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 03:51PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 17, 2005 12:06PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 12:58PM |
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Joanne |
February 17, 2005 01:07PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 01:24PM |
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Katherine Reece |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 17, 2005 01:54PM |
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Katherine Reece |
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Stephanie |
February 16, 2005 04:25PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 16, 2005 04:30PM |
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Stephanie |
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Stephanie |
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Sam |
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lobo-hotei |
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lobo-hotei |
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lobo-hotei |
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Stephanie |
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lobo-hotei |
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Stephanie |
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lobo-hotei |
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Lee |
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Lee |
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Stephanie |
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lobo-hotei |
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Stephanie |
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Joanne |
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Joanne |
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Stephanie |
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Joanne |
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lobo-hotei |
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Stephanie |
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Joanne |
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Stephanie |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 12:19PM |
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 02:30PM |
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cicely |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 03:00PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 18, 2005 03:28PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 03:34PM |
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Joanne |
February 18, 2005 06:16PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 02:56PM |
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 03:10PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 03:12PM |
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cicely |
February 18, 2005 03:14PM |
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Doug Weller |
February 18, 2005 03:35PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 18, 2005 03:40PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 03:42PM |
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Doug Weller |
February 18, 2005 03:43PM |
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Joanne |
February 18, 2005 06:22PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 18, 2005 06:38PM |
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Doug Weller |
February 18, 2005 06:54PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 19, 2005 03:55AM |
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Stephanie |
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Joanne |
February 18, 2005 06:12PM |
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stryfe |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 19, 2005 03:56AM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 01:31PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 19, 2005 01:55PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 02:13PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 19, 2005 03:22PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 03:39PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 19, 2005 03:46PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 03:59PM |
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stryfe |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 05:36AM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 17, 2005 04:49PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 05:17PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 17, 2005 04:46PM |
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Stephanie |
February 17, 2005 05:15PM |
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stryfe |
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Tommi Huhtamaki |
February 18, 2005 06:39PM |
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February 18, 2005 06:39PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 02:31PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 03:06PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 03:23PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 04:13PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 04:50PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 04:54PM |
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cicely |
February 19, 2005 04:59PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 05:00PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 19, 2005 05:25PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 05:32PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 05:46PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 05:54PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:00PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 05:54PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 19, 2005 05:59PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:11PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 19, 2005 06:38PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:45PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 06:47PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 19, 2005 06:55PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 06:17PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:36PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 07:04PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 19, 2005 07:09PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 07:24PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 05:04PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 05:44PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 05:20PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 05:27PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 05:48PM |
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teacup |
February 19, 2005 06:05PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 06:11PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:47PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:42PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 06:54PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 04:52PM |
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Sam |
February 19, 2005 06:05PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 06:26PM |
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Sam |
February 19, 2005 07:04PM |
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stryfe |
February 19, 2005 07:34PM |
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Sam |
February 19, 2005 09:47PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 06:29PM |