Greg Reeder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So now acording to you and Morph, the "Sun" god
> is not referenced a single time in the Pyramid
> Texts?
>
> "Precisely"?

Yes, Precisely.

You raise a very interesting question: How do we know that Re is actually equated with the sun? And as a follow up question, how is this knowledge different from the knowledge that sAH is equated with the beltstars of Orion?

Two things come to mind. First, the clear descriptions of Re as being of the sky, lord of the horizon, so on and so forth "he whose name is written in the sky" (I think that's a quote from the New Kingdom, somewhere). This is very closely related to the second point...

Second, the fact that the word "sun" and "Re" are written the same way; they are the same word, and in the Old Kingdom, they are a circle with a dot in the middle. If you looked at the sun, you would see the name "Re" written in the sky.

Granted, one could argue that this is the same thing, as "sAH" is the same word that describes the beltstars, but the fact that there is ONE sun in the sky makes the identification between Re and that ONE sun fairly easy to determine. Contrast that with a series of three stars in a line. There are literally hundreds of possibilities, and Morph is right to question the assumption that what was later clearly identified as sAH was, in fact, always identified as sAH.

Further, see how the identification of sAH with the beltstars is dramatically different from the identification of say, Thoth with the moon. Here's a great synopsis of the levels and layers of information that go into making that identification so obvious:

Quote

Represented as an ibis or a baboon, Thot is often crowned with the crescent and disk of the moon, demonstrating his lunar character. In the Pyramid Texts, he is called upon next to the solar god Re and both are described as the "two companions who traverse the sky" (PT 128 b-c). In the Coffin Texts, the deceased proclaims that he "knows the one who is small on the second day of the month and big on the fifteenth, it is Thot", referring to the waxing moon of the first half of the lunar month.

Like the two most important other lunar gods, Iah, whose name simply means "moon", and Khonsu, whose name "the wanderer" refers to the cycles of the moon, Thot is very closely associated with the calculation of time in specific and arithmetic in general. As the master of passing time, he is called "the scribe who counts the years".

As a lunar god, he was responsible for completing the moon during its cycle, that is to say, to make sure that time passes as it is supposed to. He is thus often called "the one who completes (the moon)" or "the one who counts the things that are brought (to him)", where "the things that are brought (to him)" refers to the pieces of the wounded lunar eye (the moon). The waning and waxing of the moon were explained in mythology as the eye of the moon being wounded (waning) and healed (waxing), and Thot was the god who took care of the healing.

As such, Thot becomes much more than just a lunar god. He is the guardian of the moon, the healer of the lunar eye and, together with the sky god Shu, the protector of Osiris when the latter god is associated with the moon. It is in this way that one needs to understand the unique representation in the Sokar-chapel of the temple of Dendara, which shows the udjat-eye as a symbol for the moon, being held in a net by Shu and Thot.

Thot was not only responsible for the lunar cycle, but also for the movements of the stars. Again in the Coffin Texts it is said that Thot was the "bull among the stars" and during the New Kingdom, the stars are said to be in Thot’s following.

As the master of passing time, Thot is the god who records the annals of the king on a palm tree leaf, where that type of leaf represents the notion of "years".

In his relationship to the solar god Re, Thot (the moon) is said to be his companion or his substitute. The moon was often called the substitute of the sun at night. One of Thot’s epithets describes him as "herald of Re in the sky". [www.ancient-egypt.org]

Waxing crescents, lunar discs, "companion to the sun" but "bull among the stars"... Again, there is only one moon, so it makes the identification very easy and obvious.

Let me be perfectly clear here: I am in no way defending his argument, Greg... only his right to argue, based on the nature of logic, evidence and probability-based assumptions. Unless we are free to question the status quo, how will we know when we've gone down a wrong path?

It seems to me that asking the question, "How do we know?", or "Couldn't this also be right?" should be a fundamental right for anyone posting on this board. If people don't have answers, then they shouldn't respond by saying, "Thou shalt not question the TRUTH!" Granted, some questions require very long, involved and complex answers, but "Egyptologists all agree, so hush up!" is hardly what I would expect of Ma'at if I asked such a question.

Anthony

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2007 08:25PM by Anthony.