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May 5, 2024, 1:49 am UTC    
August 03, 2007 03:00PM
You seem to be asking how the AE surveyors could have determined the altitude of a star at it its highest point due south or north, and then build the shafts accordingly.


Dyn 4 pyramids were oriented reasonably accurately to the cardinal directions, especially Khufu's pyramid and Sneferu's northern pyramid at Dahshur which were oriented to the cardinal directions extremely accurately. The general consensus is that the AE were either using stars as an aid in the establishment of the main N / S axis of the pyramid, or the sun for the east / west axis, but the extreme accuracy of some of the orientations and the probable precessionally induced skew over time of the orientations, indicate that stars which are points of light were sighted to.

The most obvious candidate, is the North or Pole Star, Thuban either alone or with another circumpolar star using a vertical straight edge, set up using a plumb line. Another candidate, is a vertical alignment of two bright stars (Betelgeuse and Alnitak) in Orion due south.


"The astronomical knowledge of the Egyptian priests and architects at this time is indicated by early examples of the ceremony of pedj shes ('stretching the cord'), first attested on a granite block of the reign of the 2nd-Dynasty king Khasekhemwy (c.2686 BC). This method relied on sightings of the Great Bear and Orion (see SAH) constellations, using an 'instrument of knowing' (merkhet) which was similar in function to an astrolabe, and a sighting tool made from the central rib of a palm leaf, thus aligning the foundations of the pyramids and sun temples with the cardinal points, usually achieving an error of less than half a degree." (British Museum Dictionary of AE, 1995, Ian Shaw, and Paul Nicholson)


The French Egyptologist, Georges Goyon, in his book 'Le Secret Des Batisseurs Des Grandes Pyramides' 1977: 90, suggested Khufu's pyramid was aligned with Khem, 16.6 km to the north, using the North / Pole Star, Thuban.


Once due north and south are known, then its a question of waiting until the relevant star or vertical alignment of two stars, is 'eclipsed' by the vertical straight edge set up with a backsight pointing due north or south and the point where it was eclipsed, marked. Its then a simple matter of measuring the rise and run of a right angled triangle that defines the incline. A wooden template can be constructed in the form of a right angled triangle which can then be used together with a plumb line by the masons to check the slope of an inclined passage or the shafts.


The northern sky and earth had a special meaning to the AE - the king stood up in the north of the sky and also of the earth, and took possession of the Two Lands as king (of the gods) (PT 439 §814). The 'Two Lands' (tAwi) were the united Upper (southern), and Lower (northern delta region) Egypt - the north side of the sky associated with Lower (northern) Egypt. The southern sky was associated with Upper (southern) Egypt, where the large distinctive constellation of Orion (sAH) was Foremost of Upper Egypt). (PT 477 §959)


Two large distinctive star patterns are mentioned together in this MK text: "A sweet breeze to your nose! Sah (sAH, 'Orion') says to the 'Plough' / 'Big Dipper' (msxtiw)........ CT 611


From the Early Dynastic Period up to early OK, an AE sky watcher looking at the northern sky, could not have failed to realize over time that the 'Plough' / 'Big Dipper' (msxtiw) made a complete circle every 24 hours, around a point in the sky closely marked by the North or Pole Star, Thuban.

During the longest night of the year, it appeared to revolve on a circular path around the NCP from a 1 o'clock position in the sky to a 7 o'clock position during the course of the night - half a circle circling anti clockwise - in the process it turned upside down further highlighting its circular path. During the shortest night, the 'Plough' / 'Big Dipper' went from a 7 o'clock position to a 3 o'clock position.

Its clearly apparent from these observations that the Big Dipper circled around an invisible point in the sky closely 'marked' by a single star, Thuban


It was as if msxtiw was 'tethered' to a pole unable to break free, circling endlessly round and round. The ancient Egyptians may have alluded to this in their depictions of the northern sky, for example, msxtiw is depicted as an oval shaped bovine tethered from its tail to a small circle at the top of a high 'mooring' pole on Senmut's ceiling.The Pyramid Texts mention the 'Mooring Post' (mint) and 'Moorer' (smntt) that J.P. Allen describes as "two unidentified constellations of the northern or northwestern sky, envisioned as a mooring post and a hippopotamus driving it into the ground."


This 'mooring pole' may be an indication of how the AE saw this unique area of the sky - a fixed centre point around which stars revolved.


This region of the sky was probably the celestial sxt Htp (Marsh of Rest / Field of Offerings). According to an inscription in the pyramid of Pepy I, the sxt Htp was laid out by a potter - laid out for the king in the god's limit (with the help(?) of the gods).

According to the corresponding inscription in the pyramids of Merenre and Pepi II, a plumb-line / measuring cord was used.

Its interesting a potter was involved, as pots revolve on a wheel as they are made, and this revolving theme is very apparent in the northern sky. A plumb-line / measuring cord was used to lay out this celestial region just as fields were laid out after the waters of the inundation had receded.

The word for 'potter' is qd, and in PT 518 is written: Aa 28 (phono. qd, 'build', 'fashion pots') D46 (d) G43 (w) + W14 (a tall pot with horizontal line through it). 'Potter', qd, was pronounced the same as 'builder', qd.


J.P. Allen: "Pepi is the Potter of the Dual Ennead (psDti), who laid out the Marsh of Rest (sxt Htp)." P 466"Nemtiemzaf Merenre is the measuring cord of the Dual Ennead with which the Marsh of Rest was laid out." M 358 (N 546)


R.O. Faulkner: "I am the plumb-line of the Two Enneads by means of which the Field of Offerings (sxt Htp) was founded. (Var. P: "I am the potter of the Two Enneads who founded the Field of Offerings")


The king went to the big island in the midst of the Marsh of Rest on which the gods and the swallows landed - the Imperishable Stars were the swallows - The king was to be the greatest official of the akhs, the northern Imperishable Stars of the sky. (P 467; PT 519 §1216, 1220)

Allen: This Pepi has come to you, Horus, Geb's heir of whom Atum says "All is yours," of whom the Dual Ennead say "All is yours," that you might say that this Pepi will be among them, the gods in the sky, for you have assembled those in the (sky's) arcs and banded together those who are the Imperishable Stars. Turn Pepi around - ah! ah! - day from day, night from night. (Allen's note: i.e. transfer the deceased from day to night and night to day). Day after day will [he] exist, forever. Night after night will he exist, forever. P 516; PT 574 §1489-91


These texts clearly indicate the AE were interested in the region of the northern sky where the circumpolar stars are found, to the extent they incorporated them into their afterlife beliefs, and the laying out of this region with a plumb line / measuring cord resonates with the laying out of the royal funerary complexes.

CT
Subject Author Posted

Tricky question about AE and 'star-alignment'/'star-orientation'.

Ronald August 03, 2007 11:22AM

Re: Tricky question about AE and 'star-alignment'/'star-orientation'.

Principia August 03, 2007 12:15PM

Re: Tricky question about AE and 'star-alignment'/'star-orientation'.

Ronald August 03, 2007 05:56PM

Re: Tricky question about AE and 'star-alignment'/'star-orientation'.

Morph August 03, 2007 12:43PM

Re: Tricky question about AE and 'star-alignment'/'star-orientation'.

Principia August 03, 2007 01:03PM

Re: Tricky question about AE and 'star-alignment'/'star-orientation'.

Morph August 03, 2007 01:16PM

Re: Tricky question about AE and 'star-alignment'/'star-orientation'.

Greg Reeder August 03, 2007 01:19PM

Pass me not...

Morph August 03, 2007 01:30PM

Re: Pass me not...

Greg Reeder August 03, 2007 01:58PM

Re: Pass me not...

Morph August 03, 2007 02:14PM

Re: Pass me not...

Greg Reeder August 03, 2007 02:44PM

Re: Pass me not...

Morph August 03, 2007 04:46PM

Facts versus interpretation of facts

Anthony August 03, 2007 03:06PM

Re: Facts versus interpretation of facts

Greg Reeder August 03, 2007 04:03PM

Re: Facts versus interpretation of facts

Morph August 03, 2007 04:51PM

Re: Facts versus interpretation of facts

Greg Reeder August 03, 2007 05:16PM

Re: Facts versus interpretation of facts

Morph August 03, 2007 05:48PM

Re: Facts versus interpretation of facts

Ronald August 03, 2007 06:19PM

Re: Facts versus interpretation of facts

Morph August 04, 2007 05:04AM

Precisely

Anthony August 04, 2007 08:08AM

Re: Precisely

Morph August 04, 2007 11:04AM

Re: Precisely

Greg Reeder August 04, 2007 11:31AM

Re: Precisely

Morph August 04, 2007 12:13PM

Re: Precisely

Greg Reeder August 04, 2007 11:06AM

Re: Precisely

Morph August 04, 2007 01:15PM

The right to argue and change history

Anthony August 04, 2007 08:17PM

Re: Precisely

Ritva Kurittu August 04, 2007 11:20AM

Re: Precisely

Morph August 04, 2007 11:31AM

Re: Precisely

Ritva Kurittu August 04, 2007 11:45AM

Re: Precisely

Morph August 04, 2007 12:33PM

Problematically...

Morph August 04, 2007 12:56PM

Re: Problematically...

Ritva Kurittu August 04, 2007 02:07PM

Re: Problematically...

Morph August 04, 2007 03:07PM

Re: Problematically...

Ritva Kurittu August 04, 2007 03:30PM

Re: Problematically...

Morph August 04, 2007 03:50PM

Re: Problematically...

Ritva Kurittu August 04, 2007 04:19PM

Re: Problematically...

Morph August 04, 2007 04:51PM

An old saying

Anthony August 04, 2007 08:30PM

Re: An old saying

Greg Reeder August 04, 2007 11:12PM

Re: An old saying

Ritva Kurittu August 05, 2007 01:31AM

Re: An old saying

Morph August 05, 2007 05:33AM

Re: An old saying

Hermione August 05, 2007 06:11AM

Re: An old saying

Morph August 05, 2007 06:53AM

Re: An old saying

Ritva Kurittu August 05, 2007 07:27AM

Re: An old saying

Morph August 05, 2007 08:30AM

Re: An old saying

Ritva Kurittu August 05, 2007 01:18AM

Re: An old saying

Morph August 05, 2007 05:25AM

Request ...

Hermione August 05, 2007 05:57AM

Re: An old saying

Ritva Kurittu August 05, 2007 07:29AM

Re: An old saying

Morph August 05, 2007 08:52AM

**Sub-thread closed**

Hermione August 05, 2007 10:32AM

**Moderation note**

Hermione August 05, 2007 03:27PM

Re: Precisely

Ritva Kurittu August 04, 2007 02:04PM

Re: Precisely

Morph August 04, 2007 03:06PM

Re: Precisely

Ritva Kurittu August 04, 2007 03:19PM

Re: Precisely

Morph August 04, 2007 04:12PM

Re: Precisely

Ritva Kurittu August 04, 2007 04:26PM

Re: Precisely

Greg Reeder August 04, 2007 03:20PM

Re: Precisely

Greg Reeder August 04, 2007 02:35PM

Re: Precisely

Morph August 04, 2007 03:09PM

Re: Precisely

Greg Reeder August 04, 2007 02:52PM

Re: Precisely

Morph August 04, 2007 03:13PM

Re: Precisely

Greg Reeder August 04, 2007 03:29PM

Re: Precisely

Ritva Kurittu August 04, 2007 03:32PM

Re: Precisely

Morph August 04, 2007 03:43PM

Re: Precisely

Greg Reeder August 04, 2007 03:47PM

Re: Precisely

Ritva Kurittu August 04, 2007 04:15PM

Perpetuating errors

Anthony August 04, 2007 08:41PM

Re: Perpetuating errors

Greg Reeder August 04, 2007 11:04PM

Re: Perpetuating errors

Morph August 05, 2007 05:30AM

Request ...

Hermione August 05, 2007 05:59AM

Re: Perpetuating errors

Anthony August 05, 2007 02:46PM

Re: Perpetuating errors

Greg Reeder August 05, 2007 03:19PM

Re: Precisely

Morph August 04, 2007 03:38PM

Re: Precisely

Ronald August 05, 2007 05:02AM

Re: Precisely

Chris Tedder August 05, 2007 05:47AM

On the lack of evidence for targets

Anthony August 05, 2007 02:53PM

Re: Tricky question about AE and 'star-alignment'/'star-orientation'.

Chris Tedder August 03, 2007 03:00PM

Re: Tricky question about AE and 'star-alignment'/'star-orientation'.

Hermione August 05, 2007 04:06PM



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