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May 4, 2024, 8:51 pm UTC    
July 09, 2007 05:43PM
cladking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's also the bifurcation of the sides. The
> existence of the grotto and the fact that a tunnel
> was cut through existing structure to connect it
> to the rest of the passages.


“the bifurcation of the sides.” is not, so I recently read, unique to Khufu’s pyramid.
Unfortunately, I failed to note the source of this snippet of information so please don’t quote me on it.
Even if it proves to be unique I fail to see why it should be seen as anything more than evidence that the Pyramid Builders had, by this time, perfected their art.

The ‘Grotto’ is an intriguing feature of Khufu’s pyramid.
I do not hold with the theory that the ‘Well Shaft’ (of which the 'Grotto' is part) was created to enable workers to exit the Pyramid following their sealing the Ascending Passage immediately after Khufu’s alleged interment in the King’s Chamber.
My preferred view is that the ‘Grotto’ is a natural formation at the top of the mound of bedrock on which the Pyramid stands, with a natural fissure that the builders utilised by cleverly turning it into a ventilation shaft for the workers with the unenviable task of excavating the Subterranean Chamber.
I believe that this ventilation shaft was created in three parts because of a decision made to abandon the SC, which was later changed back.
In other words, two distinct attempts were made to create the SC but both were abandoned.


> The natural fissure
> just to the north may be unique among the pyramids
> (though one at Khafre's would not be surprising).

There are natural fissures in the bedrock under this Pyramid but I see nothing of particular note in this as far as the existence or non-existence of such fissures under any of the other pyramids built on the Giza Plateau is concerned.

> Moveable doors at the King's Chamber are not
> repeated in other pyramids.

I’m not entirely sure what you mean by ‘moveable doors’ here.
I shall presume you mean the Antechamber and its ‘missing’ portcullis blocks (I write ‘missing’ because I do not hold with the theory that the King’s Chamber was sealed by three portcullis blocks that were smashed and removed by tomb robbers).
Portcullis systems are found in many pyramids, though they do vary in design.
I can’t see anything particularly unique about the supposed portcullis system in Khufu’s pyramid, beyond the obvious fact it wouldn’t have worked.


> It's the only pyramid
> with air shafts.

There is evidence – albeit rather flimsy (mere paint marks on a wall) - that there were plans for shafts in Khafre’s pyramid


> It's size sets it apart (except
> for Khafre's)

There was in the 4th Dyn. a trend for ever bigger pyramids that culminated in Khufu’s pyramid.
And it is worth bearing in mind the Khufu’s father, Sneferu, had – as far as is known – three pyramids built in his lifetime that had a combined volume something like 50% greater than the Great Pyramid.


> While there are natural caverns at some other
> pyramid, I believe this is the only one to have
> them incorporated into the structure (in two
> places no less- - at the grotto and in the
> descending passage.).

The ‘Grotto’ is predominantly a natural recess in the bedrock, but I am not aware of a cavern in the Descending Passage, unless you are thinking of the recess cut out of the bedrock in the west wall of the Descending Passage that leads to the ‘Well Shaft’.
AFAIAA, this ‘cavern’ is the handiwork of humans.


> This is the only pyramid in
> which "foreign" sand has been found. Of course, if
> it existed elsewhere there would be a very low
> probability it would be known, but this is so
> incredible it always bears repeating.

I have read of this ‘sand brought in from another area’ business but I have yet to read of any conclusions about it.
And there is no evidence one way or the other for this particular sand being unique to Khufu’s pyramid.


> It's (the
> pair) is the last of the great pyramids. After
> these, time and effort put into pyramids
> plummeted.

I don’t see anything odd or mysterious here.
I think that in the pyramids of Khufu, Khafre and Menkaure, and Djedfre taking on the title of ‘Son of Re’ we see a fairly major shift on various fronts (religious, political, social) in Egyptian culture,


> It's part of the only series of pyramids known to
> have an alignment with the seasons. These point
> SW toward Heliopolis.

Sorry, I don’t follow you. sad smiley


> There are large post holes
> around the area.

IIRC, Christine El Mahdy mentions these in her book The Pyramid Builder: Cheops, the Pharaoh Behind the Great Pyramid and suggests they had some role in the moving of the blocks


> I believe the girdle stones in
> the ascending passage are unique to this
> structure.

The only reason they are unique is because they are an integral part of the construction of the Ascending Passage, which itself is, as far as is known, unique.
Apparently, the ‘girdling’ of this Passage was necessary to bond it into the superstructure.


> There are many more things that make it unique but
> they may be coincidental.

A peruse of Lehner’s The Complete Pyramids and Siliotti’s The Pyramids will show how similar and at the same time dissimilar the interiors of the 4th Dyn. were.
It could be argued that each and every pyramid of the 4th Dyn. is unique as far as its interior is concerned.
BTW, it is interesting how standardisation appears to have crept in post-Menkaure, making the interiors of the 5th and 6th Dyns all markedly similar.


> Ramps were not the primary means for lifting
> stones of the Great Pyramid. They are simply
> ruled out by the lack of evidence for them. Sure,
> it's not impossible, nothing is impossible, they
> could have been made of sand and paved with tefla
> and they just blew away over time. But there's no
> evidence for ramps. The actual evidence loudly
> says there were no ramps. The quarry is a
> U-shaped pit to the south. The tops of the U ramp
> up toward the pyramid but it is far too close to
> continue upward at a manageable angle.

My understanding is that there is hard evidence of ramps at a few pyramids.
What appears to be something of a mystery is how the ramps were actually deployed


> Levers and fulcrums are a virtual impossibility.
> There simply isn't time to lever these up the
> sides.

All I can say to this is: I strongly disagree, and may I suggest you take a look at the physics of these things.


> Manpower and guts alone can not move a mountain.
> The size of this mountain is so great that they
> would starve if they tried.

The pyramids exist.
AFAIK there is no evidence that people starved to death building them.
On the contrary, recent archaeological evidence from Giza indicates that the workforces were well cared for with food, shelter, and rudimentary medicine.


> Among its other functions, perhaps the Great
> Pyramid served as a launcher for many Pharoahs.
> It wasn't so much a tomb as a place where people
> came to see a new God be launched.

As I understand it, a king/pharaoh wouldn’t be seen dead in his predecessor’s pyramid. winking smiley

MJ
Subject Author Posted

Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 06, 2007 01:25PM

Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 06, 2007 01:38PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

MJ Thomas July 06, 2007 05:07PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Graham Chase July 07, 2007 02:24AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 12:54PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Kanga July 08, 2007 12:29AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 07, 2007 11:12AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 04:51AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Don Barone July 07, 2007 07:40AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 07, 2007 11:22AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Alcibiades July 09, 2007 03:17PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 09, 2007 04:59PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Alcibiades July 10, 2007 09:24AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 10, 2007 11:28AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Alcibiades July 10, 2007 12:15PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 10, 2007 04:46PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Alcibiades July 11, 2007 04:28PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 01:09PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Hermione July 07, 2007 01:54PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Warwick L Nixon July 07, 2007 10:19AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 07, 2007 11:16AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

cladking July 06, 2007 03:04PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 12:48PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

cladking July 07, 2007 03:02PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 09, 2007 10:51AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Warwick L Nixon July 09, 2007 11:03AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 09, 2007 11:49AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Warwick L Nixon July 10, 2007 11:21AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

cladking July 09, 2007 12:22PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 09, 2007 05:43PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Scott Creighton July 09, 2007 06:09PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Anthony July 09, 2007 06:26PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Scott Creighton July 09, 2007 06:44PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Anthony July 10, 2007 09:46AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Scott Creighton July 10, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

David Johnson July 07, 2007 07:12AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 01:00PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Warwick L Nixon July 07, 2007 10:24AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 01:12PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Warwick L Nixon July 09, 2007 09:28AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Ritva Kurittu July 07, 2007 11:23AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 12:13PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Roxana Cooper July 08, 2007 11:30AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 10, 2007 06:54AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Jammer July 13, 2007 08:14AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Graham Chase July 08, 2007 01:30PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 09, 2007 11:45AM

Minor point

Anthony July 09, 2007 02:22PM

Re: Minor point

MJ Thomas July 10, 2007 07:28AM

Re: Minor point

Anthony July 10, 2007 09:09AM

"Pyramid as Star" concept

Anthony July 09, 2007 01:20PM

Re: "Pyramid as Star" concept

Warwick L Nixon July 10, 2007 11:25AM

Re: "Pyramid as Star" concept

Anthony July 10, 2007 11:32AM

Re: "Pyramid as Star" concept

Ritva Kurittu July 10, 2007 11:43AM

Re: "Pyramid as Star" concept

Anthony July 10, 2007 12:58PM

Re: "Pyramid as Star" concept

Warwick L Nixon July 13, 2007 10:50AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 01:24PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Ritva Kurittu July 07, 2007 02:21PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Anthony July 09, 2007 01:31PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Ritva Kurittu July 09, 2007 02:21PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Anthony July 09, 2007 05:25PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Ritva Kurittu July 10, 2007 11:39AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Anthony July 10, 2007 01:07PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Ritva Kurittu July 10, 2007 02:16PM

One basic answer: Pyramids - why they did bother

Anthony July 09, 2007 01:41PM

Re: One basic answer: Pyramids - why they did bother

MJ Thomas July 10, 2007 07:10AM

Re: One basic answer: Pyramids - why they did bother

Anthony July 10, 2007 09:19AM

Re: One basic answer: Pyramids - why they did bother

Jammer July 12, 2007 03:08PM

Re: One basic answer: Pyramids - why they did bother

Anthony July 12, 2007 06:54PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Clive July 17, 2007 12:13AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Jammer July 17, 2007 07:32AM

The soul, magic and death

Anthony July 17, 2007 10:14AM



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