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May 5, 2024, 4:10 am UTC    
July 09, 2007 01:20PM
Graham Chase Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


>
> Yes, you are overlooking the established
> correspondence between the pyramids and the
> stars.
>



In all my years of research I have found absolutely no "established correspondence between the pyramids and the stars". The sky, the duat and the stars as inhabitants of both are not conceptual equivalents. They are not interchangeable, and they should not be confused by us in any way, shape or form.

The closest piece of information you have that links a pyramid to the stars (and not a star, for which there is absolutely no evidence) is the name given to Djedefre's pyramid. This pyramid is roughly translated to mean "Djedefre's Starry Sky", or "The Firmament of Djedefre". We had quite a long discussion on this name several months ago here at Ma'at. Some read the name as "Djedefre is a Shining Star", as well, if I recall) There really is no equivalent concept in the English language. You will notice, however, that in the two first names suggested above, the star is not a noun, but an adjective describing a noun. It is not the central idea of the description of the pyramid or its function. The pyramid of Djedefre is one pyramid, though, and the other pyramids have names that make it clear they are not stellarly related. "Khufu's Horizon" does not relate to stars in any way. It is simply the Akhet, the place where things become "effective". The place where the king's spirit becomes an Akh. In general terms, there's little more to it than that.

In addition, I have seen no evidence from the culture that would allow for "pyramid=star". Most think that the stars are thought to be the "souls" of gods or royalty. By equating the pyramid with the star, one would have to make a jump to then having the pyramid equal a single star representing the royal Akh of the king inhabiting it. I don't see any references whatsoever in any texts from any part of Egyptian history that give this impression. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Although the king's body inhabits the pyramid, his Akh is destined to leave the pyramid as soon as possible and take its place outside the confines of the tomb.

Even if we wanted to make this argument, that Khufu's pyramid was supposed to be representative of "his" star, then one would expect to find some kind of "targeting" of that single star within the design of the pyramid. In fact, although I strongly disagree with the speculation that the four shafts in Khufu's pyramid were ever intended to target any star at any time of day or night, the fact that the shafts aim at no fewer than four prominent stars at some impossible time in Egyptian history (see Wall's article in JHA), easily negates the idea that the pyramid represents a single star.

I can go on with more reasons why it doesn't really work, but these alone should be enough to remove the idea from the table of concepts for understanding pyramid symbolism in the Old Kingdom.






Anthony

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.
Subject Author Posted

Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 06, 2007 01:25PM

Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 06, 2007 01:38PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

MJ Thomas July 06, 2007 05:07PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Graham Chase July 07, 2007 02:24AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 12:54PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Kanga July 08, 2007 12:29AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 07, 2007 11:12AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 04:51AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Don Barone July 07, 2007 07:40AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 07, 2007 11:22AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Alcibiades July 09, 2007 03:17PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 09, 2007 04:59PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Alcibiades July 10, 2007 09:24AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 10, 2007 11:28AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Alcibiades July 10, 2007 12:15PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 10, 2007 04:46PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Alcibiades July 11, 2007 04:28PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 01:09PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Hermione July 07, 2007 01:54PM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Warwick L Nixon July 07, 2007 10:19AM

Re: Conspicuous Consumption

Roxana Cooper July 07, 2007 11:16AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

cladking July 06, 2007 03:04PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 12:48PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

cladking July 07, 2007 03:02PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 09, 2007 10:51AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Warwick L Nixon July 09, 2007 11:03AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 09, 2007 11:49AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Warwick L Nixon July 10, 2007 11:21AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

cladking July 09, 2007 12:22PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 09, 2007 05:43PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Scott Creighton July 09, 2007 06:09PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Anthony July 09, 2007 06:26PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Scott Creighton July 09, 2007 06:44PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Anthony July 10, 2007 09:46AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Scott Creighton July 10, 2007 09:59AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

David Johnson July 07, 2007 07:12AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 01:00PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Warwick L Nixon July 07, 2007 10:24AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 01:12PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Warwick L Nixon July 09, 2007 09:28AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Ritva Kurittu July 07, 2007 11:23AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 12:13PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Roxana Cooper July 08, 2007 11:30AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 10, 2007 06:54AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Jammer July 13, 2007 08:14AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Graham Chase July 08, 2007 01:30PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 09, 2007 11:45AM

Minor point

Anthony July 09, 2007 02:22PM

Re: Minor point

MJ Thomas July 10, 2007 07:28AM

Re: Minor point

Anthony July 10, 2007 09:09AM

"Pyramid as Star" concept

Anthony July 09, 2007 01:20PM

Re: "Pyramid as Star" concept

Warwick L Nixon July 10, 2007 11:25AM

Re: "Pyramid as Star" concept

Anthony July 10, 2007 11:32AM

Re: "Pyramid as Star" concept

Ritva Kurittu July 10, 2007 11:43AM

Re: "Pyramid as Star" concept

Anthony July 10, 2007 12:58PM

Re: "Pyramid as Star" concept

Warwick L Nixon July 13, 2007 10:50AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

MJ Thomas July 07, 2007 01:24PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Ritva Kurittu July 07, 2007 02:21PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Anthony July 09, 2007 01:31PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Ritva Kurittu July 09, 2007 02:21PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Anthony July 09, 2007 05:25PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Ritva Kurittu July 10, 2007 11:39AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Anthony July 10, 2007 01:07PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Ritva Kurittu July 10, 2007 02:16PM

One basic answer: Pyramids - why they did bother

Anthony July 09, 2007 01:41PM

Re: One basic answer: Pyramids - why they did bother

MJ Thomas July 10, 2007 07:10AM

Re: One basic answer: Pyramids - why they did bother

Anthony July 10, 2007 09:19AM

Re: One basic answer: Pyramids - why they did bother

Jammer July 12, 2007 03:08PM

Re: One basic answer: Pyramids - why they did bother

Anthony July 12, 2007 06:54PM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Clive July 17, 2007 12:13AM

Re: Basic question: Pyramids - why did they bother?

Jammer July 17, 2007 07:32AM

The soul, magic and death

Anthony July 17, 2007 10:14AM



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