February 21, 2005 12:53PM
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Moderator
Registered: 19 years ago
Posts: 4,143
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A correction: First of all, medicine bundles were not found on our property in the last strings of visitations. It never got to that point, even after a couple weeks of steady visitation. It's possible that they never found any appropriate personal material in order to make one. Although we don't burn our trash, we're still cautious out of cultural deference. The medicine bundle information comes from multiple sources both within and outside the family. Just wanted to get that straight.
You bring up some very interesting and valid points. I think it's clear in Stryfe's description of the actions that the skinwalker who came to parlay with the Elders was decidedly in some sort of trance. Even though he was still saying "I hate this, get me out of this, I can't get out of this, they'll kill me", he was behaving as an animal would the entire time. Skinwalkers obviously don't completely shapeshift mentally as they would forget their capacity of speech.
What is a trance but an induced (including self) state of mind. I'm not sure what you mean by this part:
"But the Navajo skinwalkers, whereas they are shapeshifters of a kind, have lost the original purpose of shapeshifting. Shapeshifting is usually performed for positive ends and only positive: healing, finding the prey, reaching knowledge of the otherworld. Therefore I can't quite imagine, that the skinwalkers are shapeshifters in the proper and original meaning of the word. They might still shapeshift, but I strongly doubt it is done by mechanical trance (like the Berserkers), that does not demand true communion with the spiritual world and it's essences."
I think that it might be a little too romantic to assume that even shapeshifters 10,000 bp only used their gifts for positive ends. In the skinwalker, you find both hunter and warrior if the stories are true. "Positive" ends, I would think, would depend on which side of a battlefield one is on. In this sense, what we perceive as being evil, malicious and possibly unwarranted attacks, they could be perceiving their victims as the enemy. In this case, the motivation isn't so much about evil, it's war (though imo war is evil lol). If they believe that they are right and just in their actions, then they would not find it wrong whatsoever to be using shamanistic powers in this way.
I apologize ahead of time if that made zero sense or I missed your point. Have had a 2 year old tugging on me for the majority of the time in responding to your post. One more thing, I don't see skinwalkers as being unique throughout history. What I do feel is important is that they are still very much alive and active today. Even if they have lost some of their purity over the last century or so, they are still pretty darn pure.
Stephanie
In every man there is something wherein I may learn of him, and in that I am his pupil.--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 01:25PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 18, 2005 02:47PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 18, 2005 03:13PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 04:28PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 18, 2005 03:10PM |
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 08:19PM |
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teacup |
February 18, 2005 08:39PM |
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 09:01PM |
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teacup |
February 18, 2005 09:11PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 19, 2005 04:03AM |
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Stephanie |
February 18, 2005 04:32PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 18, 2005 04:35PM |
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Stephanie |
February 19, 2005 02:38PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 19, 2005 03:30PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 18, 2005 06:21PM |
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cicely |
February 19, 2005 04:56PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 19, 2005 05:23PM |
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John Wall |
February 19, 2005 05:34PM |
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Mercury Rapids |
February 20, 2005 06:50AM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 07:12AM |
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Joanne |
February 20, 2005 11:34AM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 12:30PM |
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stryfe |
February 20, 2005 01:43PM |
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Jane |
February 20, 2005 02:07PM |
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Joanne |
February 20, 2005 02:35PM |
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Jane |
February 20, 2005 02:56PM |
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Doug Weller |
February 20, 2005 03:15PM |
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Jane |
February 20, 2005 04:27PM |
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Joanne |
February 21, 2005 06:57PM |
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Jane |
February 26, 2005 09:18PM |
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stryfe |
February 20, 2005 03:05PM |
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Joanne |
February 21, 2005 07:00PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 03:29PM |
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stryfe |
February 20, 2005 03:45PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 03:53PM |
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stryfe |
February 20, 2005 04:17PM |
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Mercury Rapids |
February 20, 2005 04:19PM |
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Stephanie |
February 20, 2005 04:26PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 04:30PM |
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Stephanie |
February 20, 2005 05:23PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 09:29PM |
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Katherine Reece |
February 20, 2005 11:26PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 20, 2005 04:46PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 04:58PM |
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Stephanie |
February 20, 2005 06:12PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 21, 2005 10:41AM |
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Stephanie |
February 21, 2005 12:53PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 21, 2005 02:29PM |
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lobo-hotei |
February 21, 2005 06:55PM |
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Stephanie |
February 20, 2005 04:04PM |
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Jane |
February 20, 2005 04:26PM |
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Stephanie |
February 20, 2005 04:57PM |
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Jane |
February 20, 2005 05:32PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 04:40PM |
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Stephanie |
February 20, 2005 05:07PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 05:11PM |
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Jane |
February 20, 2005 05:22PM |
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Stephanie |
February 20, 2005 05:44PM |
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Jane |
February 20, 2005 11:03PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 20, 2005 09:34PM |
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Jane |
February 20, 2005 10:42PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 21, 2005 03:05PM |
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teacup |
February 21, 2005 05:17PM |
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Joanne |
February 21, 2005 06:20PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 22, 2005 12:39PM |
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teacup |
February 22, 2005 01:08PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 22, 2005 04:44PM |
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Stephanie |
February 22, 2005 03:47PM |
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Stephanie |
February 22, 2005 03:59PM |
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cicely |
February 22, 2005 04:40PM |
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Stephanie |
February 22, 2005 05:28PM |
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cicely |
February 22, 2005 05:32PM |
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Stephanie |
February 22, 2005 05:53PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 22, 2005 05:02PM |
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Stephanie |
February 22, 2005 05:48PM |
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cicely |
February 22, 2005 05:55PM |
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Stephanie |
February 23, 2005 02:27AM |
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cicely |
February 23, 2005 09:25AM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 23, 2005 12:35PM |
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Stephanie |
February 23, 2005 01:18PM |
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cicely |
February 23, 2005 01:35PM |
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Stephanie |
February 23, 2005 09:36PM |
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Sue |
February 26, 2005 03:02PM |
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John Wall |
February 26, 2005 03:04PM |
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Jane |
February 26, 2005 09:25PM |
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Stephanie |
February 27, 2005 02:33PM |
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Sue |
February 27, 2005 04:44PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
February 23, 2005 12:27PM |
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Jane |
February 26, 2005 09:21PM |
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Stephanie |
February 20, 2005 02:21PM |
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Ritva Kurittu |
March 02, 2005 03:24PM |
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Stephanie |
March 03, 2005 12:48PM |
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christinajaco |
March 11, 2005 12:17PM |
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Stephanie |
March 13, 2005 12:10AM |
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Lillian |
March 26, 2005 03:42PM |
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Stephanie |
April 01, 2005 04:05AM |
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Doug Weller |
February 18, 2005 07:06PM |