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May 6, 2024, 8:50 pm UTC    
February 21, 2005 12:53PM
A correction: First of all, medicine bundles were not found on our property in the last strings of visitations. It never got to that point, even after a couple weeks of steady visitation. It's possible that they never found any appropriate personal material in order to make one. Although we don't burn our trash, we're still cautious out of cultural deference. The medicine bundle information comes from multiple sources both within and outside the family. Just wanted to get that straight. smiling smiley

You bring up some very interesting and valid points. I think it's clear in Stryfe's description of the actions that the skinwalker who came to parlay with the Elders was decidedly in some sort of trance. Even though he was still saying "I hate this, get me out of this, I can't get out of this, they'll kill me", he was behaving as an animal would the entire time. Skinwalkers obviously don't completely shapeshift mentally as they would forget their capacity of speech.

What is a trance but an induced (including self) state of mind. I'm not sure what you mean by this part:

"But the Navajo skinwalkers, whereas they are shapeshifters of a kind, have lost the original purpose of shapeshifting. Shapeshifting is usually performed for positive ends and only positive: healing, finding the prey, reaching knowledge of the otherworld. Therefore I can't quite imagine, that the skinwalkers are shapeshifters in the proper and original meaning of the word. They might still shapeshift, but I strongly doubt it is done by mechanical trance (like the Berserkers), that does not demand true communion with the spiritual world and it's essences."

I think that it might be a little too romantic to assume that even shapeshifters 10,000 bp only used their gifts for positive ends. In the skinwalker, you find both hunter and warrior if the stories are true. "Positive" ends, I would think, would depend on which side of a battlefield one is on. In this sense, what we perceive as being evil, malicious and possibly unwarranted attacks, they could be perceiving their victims as the enemy. In this case, the motivation isn't so much about evil, it's war (though imo war is evil lol). If they believe that they are right and just in their actions, then they would not find it wrong whatsoever to be using shamanistic powers in this way.

I apologize ahead of time if that made zero sense or I missed your point. Have had a 2 year old tugging on me for the majority of the time in responding to your post. One more thing, I don't see skinwalkers as being unique throughout history. What I do feel is important is that they are still very much alive and active today. Even if they have lost some of their purity over the last century or so, they are still pretty darn pure.

Stephanie




In every man there is something wherein I may learn of him, and in that I am his pupil.--Ralph Waldo Emerson
Subject Author Posted

Skinwalkers: Visitations

Stephanie February 18, 2005 01:25PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Katherine Reece February 18, 2005 02:47PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

lobo-hotei February 18, 2005 03:13PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Stephanie February 19, 2005 04:28PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Ritva Kurittu February 18, 2005 03:10PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Stephanie February 18, 2005 08:19PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

teacup February 18, 2005 08:39PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Stephanie February 18, 2005 09:01PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

teacup February 18, 2005 09:11PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Ritva Kurittu February 19, 2005 04:03AM

Correction

Stephanie February 18, 2005 04:32PM

Re: Correction

Katherine Reece February 18, 2005 04:35PM

Re: Correction

Stephanie February 19, 2005 02:38PM

Re: Correction

lobo-hotei February 19, 2005 03:30PM

Note to thread........

Katherine Reece February 18, 2005 06:21PM

Question for Moderators

cicely February 19, 2005 04:56PM

Re: Question for Moderators

Katherine Reece February 19, 2005 05:23PM

Re: Question for Moderators

John Wall February 19, 2005 05:34PM

The Path of the Skinwalker

Mercury Rapids February 20, 2005 06:50AM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 20, 2005 07:12AM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Joanne February 20, 2005 11:34AM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 20, 2005 12:30PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

stryfe February 20, 2005 01:43PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Jane February 20, 2005 02:07PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Joanne February 20, 2005 02:35PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Jane February 20, 2005 02:56PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Doug Weller February 20, 2005 03:15PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Jane February 20, 2005 04:27PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Joanne February 21, 2005 06:57PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Jane February 26, 2005 09:18PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

stryfe February 20, 2005 03:05PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Joanne February 21, 2005 07:00PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 20, 2005 03:29PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

stryfe February 20, 2005 03:45PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 20, 2005 03:53PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

stryfe February 20, 2005 04:17PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Mercury Rapids February 20, 2005 04:19PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Stephanie February 20, 2005 04:26PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 20, 2005 04:30PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Stephanie February 20, 2005 05:23PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 20, 2005 09:29PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Katherine Reece February 20, 2005 11:26PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

lobo-hotei February 20, 2005 04:46PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 20, 2005 04:58PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Stephanie February 20, 2005 06:12PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 21, 2005 10:41AM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Stephanie February 21, 2005 12:53PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 21, 2005 02:29PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

lobo-hotei February 21, 2005 06:55PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Stephanie February 20, 2005 04:04PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Jane February 20, 2005 04:26PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Stephanie February 20, 2005 04:57PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Jane February 20, 2005 05:32PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 20, 2005 04:40PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Stephanie February 20, 2005 05:07PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 20, 2005 05:11PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Jane February 20, 2005 05:22PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Stephanie February 20, 2005 05:44PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Jane February 20, 2005 11:03PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 20, 2005 09:34PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Jane February 20, 2005 10:42PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 21, 2005 03:05PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

teacup February 21, 2005 05:17PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Joanne February 21, 2005 06:20PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 22, 2005 12:39PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

teacup February 22, 2005 01:08PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Ritva Kurittu February 22, 2005 04:44PM

On material wealth

Stephanie February 22, 2005 03:47PM

Re: On material wealth

Stephanie February 22, 2005 03:59PM

Re: On material wealth

cicely February 22, 2005 04:40PM

Re: On material wealth

Stephanie February 22, 2005 05:28PM

Re: On material wealth

cicely February 22, 2005 05:32PM

Re: On material wealth

Stephanie February 22, 2005 05:53PM

Re: On material wealth

Ritva Kurittu February 22, 2005 05:02PM

Re: On material wealth

Stephanie February 22, 2005 05:48PM

Re: On material wealth

cicely February 22, 2005 05:55PM

Re: On material wealth

Stephanie February 23, 2005 02:27AM

Re: On material wealth

cicely February 23, 2005 09:25AM

Re: On material wealth

Ritva Kurittu February 23, 2005 12:35PM

Re: On material wealth

Stephanie February 23, 2005 01:18PM

Re: On material wealth

cicely February 23, 2005 01:35PM

Re: On material wealth

Stephanie February 23, 2005 09:36PM

Re: On material wealth

Sue February 26, 2005 03:02PM

Re: On material wealth

John Wall February 26, 2005 03:04PM

Re: On material wealth

Jane February 26, 2005 09:25PM

Re: On material wealth

Stephanie February 27, 2005 02:33PM

synchronicity re Hillerman

Sue February 27, 2005 04:44PM

Re: On material wealth

Ritva Kurittu February 23, 2005 12:27PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Jane February 26, 2005 09:21PM

Re: The Path of the Skinwalker

Stephanie February 20, 2005 02:21PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Ritva Kurittu March 02, 2005 03:24PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Stephanie March 03, 2005 12:48PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

christinajaco March 11, 2005 12:17PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Stephanie March 13, 2005 12:10AM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Lillian March 26, 2005 03:42PM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Stephanie April 01, 2005 04:05AM

Re: Skinwalkers: Visitations

Doug Weller February 18, 2005 07:06PM



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