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May 28, 2024, 5:48 pm UTC    
December 31, 2006 01:02PM
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What is the source of Ma’atian attitudes towards Atlantis?

Evidence and lack of evidence

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Apparently Ignatious Donnelly’s books rekindled interest in Plato’s story. They are
available on The Sacred Texts Archive. His perspective was that the story was largely true and that the physical event that resulted in Atlantis’ destruction was the passage of Earth through a comet’s tail. The next most influential reference to Atlantis was the Edgar Cayce trance statement that it was located near Cuba and that records could be found in a secret underground room beneath the Sphinx.

Donnelly's book is a traversty and the stuff about Atlantis being destroyed by a comet
nonsense. As for Cayce didn't he say that Atlantis would rise again in 1968. Oh and hall of records below the Sphinx is a halucination.


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The attitudes here may be based on the fact that no scientific evidence for Atlantis exists. However, Donnelly examines a lot of mythological evidence. Since there is a great deal of effort expended on Egyptian mythology, isn’t this evidence for non objective favoritism?

Donnelly examination of mythological evidence is a tissue of distortions, and since there isno evidence and plenty against the idea that the central Atlantic was NOT above sea level 11.000 years ago or in fact anytime in the last several 10's of millions of years Donnelly's mythological "evidence" is to but it mildly dubious. Oh and Egyptian mythology is given favrable treatment here at Maat, how. I' haven't noticed anyone here using Egyptian myth to tell history the way Donnelly tried with his distortions of myth.

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Dr. Hawass is militantly anti Atlantis since in his view it degrades appreciation of
Egyptian creativity. Interestingly he appears to have a strong working relationship with Mark Lehner who got his start with the Cayce Institute.

I don't think Hawass is "militantly anti Atlantis", anymore than a modern Geographer is anti flat earth. And frankly belief in Atlantis is similar to that. I suspect that Hawass simply doesn't take it the slightest bit seriously and why should he? Oh and he is right that atributing a lot of stuff to Atlantis rather than accepting that it is Egyptian is dedegrading esspecially since there is massive evidence for Egyptians doing it on their own and next to NO evidence for Atlantians giving it too them. So why the egarness to attribute Egyptian stuff to Atlantis esppecially ehwen their is next to NO evidence for it?

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The scientific view of the development of human life has been a generally continuous
upward trend with understanding being the goal and this trend is exemplified by a thoughtless approach to life being superceded by superstition, religion, and science. Since this view doesn’t allow for catastrophes that are of such a magnitude that human culture would effectively have to start over, this may account for the rejection of the Atlantis story. This might also account for the dismissal of Noah’s flood. There is a problem here in the rising realization of the frequency and sometimes devastating nature of asteroid hits. In fact if one spends as much time on astronomy as Ancient Egypt, the likelihood of Donnelly’s scenario is much enhanced.

Your view of the "scientific view of the development of human life" is a parody. Sorry but it is not that there "has been a generally continous upward trend". Dark ages and long periods of stagnation do exist and are aknowledged to exist. As this view accounting for the rejection of the Atlantis story. Well what about lack of evidence. One would expect that chastrophies that would erase human culture such as it would have to start again would leave evidece of their occurances like all sorts of disasters from antiquity. But instead these disasters seem to have unaccountably cleaned up after themselves. Sorry but the case is the evidence for such recent worls wide disasters such as to erase human civilizations is nil along with the evidence for such pre existing civilization. As for recent evidence about asteroid / comet collisons may I point out the evidence for them dates them millions of years ago and for some of them like the K2 impact (between the Cretacus and the Cenezoic) is clear. Concerning the last 100.000 years it appears that wwe've been spared such massive civilization destroying impacts although a few bits of space debris hit us. Oh and none of this makes Donnelly's senario anymore likely because
there is no physical evidence for the catastrophe he describes in eith his Atlantis or Ragnarok.


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My view of Plato is that he was certainly one of the great philosophers and not given to flights of fancy. In addition I haven’t heard any compelling suggestion regarding the point of allegorical interpretation. It may be that the view of Atlantis on Ma’at is to be expected due to the preponderance of historians posting there.

Plato "not given to flights of fancy". Yeah right lets see the whole myth of creation in Timeaus, the fable of the metals in the Republic, to say nothing about the rest of Plato's dialogues are full of such "myths". Oh and Plato, lets see, invented dialogues in which people said things which they never said. Plato invented charcters which never existed, (Diotoma in Symposium) and so on ann so forth. And what about the two "ideal" societies Plato created in the Republic, and the Laws. Sorry but Plato was very much given to "flights of fancy". As for allegorical meaning isn't obvious that the entire Atlantis story is a cautionary tale about the disasterous consequences of pride, hubrus and aggresive imperialism?

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One can favor at least two attitudes to Atlantis. One can assume it is a story intended to entertain and having no basis in fact or one can assume it is a mythological story based on fact. The second seems to me more open minded though I am not indebted to the academic community other than as an ordinary intellectual interested in their conclusions. Since historians are mainly interested in documenting civilization, maybe they have an implicit commitment to the success of civilization and see Atlantis as a threatening idea since if factual it documents the loss of civilization. However, if one favors the idea that Egypt owes its civilizing impetus to Atlantis, that suggests that while the physical existence of Atlantis was destroyed, Egypt was a new incarnation of it and therefor the idea survived. In fact that view leads to the idea that since Egypt provided the inspiration for Judaism and that led to the rise of Europe and the US, we are the current incarnation.

Your dicotomy is false. Of course one can easily assume that the Atlantis story is myth based on fact and still conclude that Plato made it up. Tolkin's Middle earth is based on Tolkin's extensive knowledge of the early middle ages, and Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Germanic folklore and its still creation of his mind. Plato could have easily taken things he knew and created the Atlantis tale, like stories about land sinking, Syracuse, Carthage, the Persian wars and woven them into a myth. Oh and just has important in the tale is Athens which fought and defeated Atlantis in Plato's story, no evidence for Plato's Atlantean Athens.

Your assumption that Historians feel threatened by the tale of Atlantis. That is typical
speculative thinking. There is simply no real evidence for Atlantis and casting speculative webs about what opponents think is attempt to shift the focus from the lack of evidence. Oh and Historians are perfectly aware that civilization can be lost. Ever heard of Gibbon's Decline and Fall ....

The rest is fanciful speculation there is and remains zero evidence that Atlantis was the
inspiration for Egyptian civilization.


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New things don’t just happen, they grow out of something else. So, the idea that
civilization naturally followed when some goat herders were blessed with suitable weather seems overly simplistic. The Bible documents how civilization could have been transmitted from the Watchers to Babylon (more detail is in Enoch). The Silk Road seems a likely transmittal route from there to China and the timing seems plausible and the Vedas document their transmittal to India. But if an unambiguous written record is required, then we’ll just have to keep looking though since nobody among the receivers knew what was happening, success seems unlikely. Even if the Atlanteans were consciously behind it, there may have been so many millennia between the loss of Atlantis and the beginnings of Egypt we’re lucky to have Plato’s story.

Ah a great peace descends on me. Your comment, "So, the idea that civilization naturally followed when some goat herders were blessed with suitable weather seems overly simplistic." Such breathtaking naivity combined with a serious lack of knowledge. I suggest you read a few introductory archaeology texts. No one says that. The rest of your comments are quite risible.

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My attraction to this interpretation comes from my understanding of cultural identity. As Plato described it, Atlantis was the very epitome of a masculine culture as opposed to a more feminine one such as the pre Columbus North American Indians. I wonder if that was his intent and accounts for his inclusion of the war. The Atlanteans seem to be very similar to his own culture or maybe the Greeks described by Homer.

Yeah right. Like the American Indian cultures with scalping to say nothing Aztec and Inca imperialism, to say nothing of Aztec human sacrifice. Nonsense.

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I remember that Osiris was credited by Graham Hancock as the bringer of civilization and I understand Osiris’ title was "Foremost of the Westerners".

Hancock is a very funny joke. I wouldn't trust him.

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To the objective onlooker, this theory of civilization is at least as likely as academia’s preferred explanation and if one studies ideology to the point of realizing some generalities about it, more likely.

Lets see to an "objective onlooker" a theory that has zero evidence for it is at least as likely if not more than a theory that has realms of evidence for it. Too funny for words.

Pierre





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2006 09:10PM by lobo-hotei.
Subject Author Posted

Atlantis

Joe Schiller December 21, 2006 02:10PM

Re: Atlantis

Dave L December 21, 2006 03:55PM

Re: Atlantis

Roxana Cooper December 22, 2006 02:35PM

Re: Atlantis

Dave L December 22, 2006 02:45PM

Re: Atlantis

rich December 21, 2006 04:00PM

A doomed German aristocracy

Dave L December 21, 2006 05:42PM

Re: A doomed German aristocracy

Charlotte Masuda December 22, 2006 09:27AM

Re: A doomed German aristocracy

Dave L December 22, 2006 11:38AM

Re: A doomed German aristocracy

rich December 22, 2006 03:56PM

Re: A doomed German aristocracy

Charlotte Masuda December 22, 2006 09:59PM

Re: A doomed German aristocracy

Dave L December 23, 2006 08:54AM

Re: Atlantis

Byrd December 21, 2006 08:24PM

Re: Atlantis

Anthony December 22, 2006 08:50AM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 22, 2006 10:05AM

Re: Atlantis

Roxana Cooper December 22, 2006 02:41PM

Re: Atlantis

rich December 22, 2006 04:08PM

Re: Atlantis

Hermione December 22, 2006 04:50PM

Re: Atlantis

Hans December 22, 2006 12:05AM

Re: Atlantis

rich December 22, 2006 09:56AM

Re: Atlantis

Hermione December 22, 2006 10:17AM

Re: Atlantis

rich December 22, 2006 11:09AM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 22, 2006 10:18AM

Re: Atlantis

Hans December 23, 2006 12:25PM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 22, 2006 09:20AM

Re: Atlantis

Doug Weller December 22, 2006 11:30AM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 22, 2006 12:50PM

With all due respect....

Dave L December 22, 2006 01:53PM

Re: With all due respect....

Charlotte Masuda December 22, 2006 09:52PM

Re: With all due respect....

Dave L December 23, 2006 09:02AM

Re: With all due respect....

Charlotte Masuda December 23, 2006 10:22AM

Re: With all due respect....

Charlotte Masuda December 24, 2006 07:11AM

Re: Atlantis

Doug Weller December 22, 2006 03:46PM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 22, 2006 10:36PM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 23, 2006 10:40AM

Re: Atlantis

Pacal December 25, 2006 01:14PM

Re: Atlantis

Joe Schiller December 25, 2006 02:49PM

Re: Atlantis

Doug Weller December 25, 2006 04:25PM

Re: Atlantis

Joe Schiller December 26, 2006 01:45PM

Re: Atlantis

Roxana Cooper December 27, 2006 10:45AM

Re: Atlantis

Joe Schiller December 27, 2006 11:55AM

Re: Atlantis

Khazar-khum December 26, 2006 12:55AM

Re: Atlantis

Joe Schiller December 26, 2006 01:51PM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 26, 2006 11:36AM

Re: Atlantis

Doug Weller December 26, 2006 12:02PM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 27, 2006 03:32PM

Re: Atlantis

Roxana Cooper December 23, 2006 02:16PM

Re: Atlantis

Doug Weller December 23, 2006 02:42PM

Re: Atlantis

Hans December 24, 2006 06:26AM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 24, 2006 06:58AM

Re: Atlantis

Hermione December 24, 2006 07:25AM

Re: Atlantis

Doug Weller December 24, 2006 07:56AM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 26, 2006 12:15PM

Re: Atlantis

Roxana Cooper December 24, 2006 01:01PM

Re: Atlantis

Rick Baudé December 24, 2006 01:23PM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 27, 2006 03:51PM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 26, 2006 11:59AM

Re: Atlantis

Roxana Cooper December 24, 2006 12:59PM

Re: Atlantis

Joe Schiller December 24, 2006 01:19PM

Re: Atlantis

Roxana Cooper December 25, 2006 10:15AM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 27, 2006 04:23PM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 27, 2006 02:43PM

Re: Atlantis

Joe Schiller December 27, 2006 04:11PM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 28, 2006 09:17AM

Re: Atlantis

Joe Schiller December 28, 2006 05:27PM

Moderation Note

Katherine Reece December 28, 2006 05:30PM

Re: Atlantis

Charlotte Masuda December 29, 2006 08:05AM

Re: Atlantis

Jammer December 27, 2006 04:52PM

Re: Atlantis

Joe Schiller December 27, 2006 06:24PM

Re: Atlantis

Pacal December 31, 2006 01:02PM

Re: Atlantis

Joe Schiller December 31, 2006 01:50PM

A new tale of Atlantis!

rich January 01, 2007 02:35AM

Re: A new tale of Atlantis!

Joe Schiller January 01, 2007 01:17PM

Re: A new tale of Atlantis!

Doug Weller January 01, 2007 02:41PM

Re: A new tale of Atlantis!

rich January 01, 2007 05:44PM

Re: A new tale of Atlantis!

rich January 01, 2007 09:46PM

Re: A new tale of Atlantis!

rich January 02, 2007 03:47PM

Re: A new tale of Atlantis!

Doug Weller January 02, 2007 04:39PM

Re: A new tale of Atlantis!

rich January 04, 2007 03:37PM

Re: A new tale of Atlantis!

Charlotte Masuda January 05, 2007 08:19AM

I found the war of Athena.

rich January 11, 2007 04:41PM

Re: Atlantis

Joe Schiller January 01, 2007 04:20PM

Re: Atlantis

Joe Schiller January 01, 2007 06:40PM

Corrected

Pacal March 07, 2007 02:39PM



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