Home of the The Hall of Ma'at on the Internet
Home
Discussion Forums
Papers
Authors
Web Links

May 3, 2024, 8:29 am UTC    
August 29, 2010 02:08AM
Khazar-khum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What do you mean? We have the barracks, mess hall,
> administration & graves of thousands of people
> who worked at Giza. There is such a thing as
> around-the-clock labor.

If you make a huge ramp (never mind that you can't see what you're building) you'll need a phenomenal number of men on to maintain the delivery rate and horsepoweer required to build. If none of your men ever needed any relief and could just drag stones then you'd need in the neighborhood of 2500 men on the ramp. Plus you need enough men to build the ramp on it. A single straight on ramp would mean another 20,000 men or so. Then you need men in the quarry and more to get the stones to the pyramid. Toss in the men necessary to relieve these people in the extreme heat of the Sahara summer and an army to feed and take care of them. Just the number of men necessary to haul water up from the valley for drinking would be remarkable.

If this number isn't sufficient it won't do any good to provide more labor because only a finite number of men can fit on the ramp. You can't pencil whip more labor into confined areas. A mile long ramp with 2500 menm on it means one man every two feet and you still need to squeeze in the stones. Don't forget you need a constant dragging of fill to make ramps up as well and if you make it wider to accomodate them then you need more men dragging fill for ramps.

It's not impossible they worked around the clock but remember they would have to do everything in the dark that they did in the light. That means making mortar and cutting stones as well as quarrying and everything else. This would require many hundred of torches and the fuel to keep them running. Torch light is not equivalent to sunlight and craftsmen would have to learn how to do their jobs under these conditions.

It's unlikely they worked at night. There's nothing in the PT suggestive of it nor in the culture. There was no "Overseer of Torch Makers" or anything suggestive. There is a device called the fire-pan which was a light source according to Sethe. There are implications that when this burned the builders reported to work.

Utterance 343.

558a. To say: Bdš.t comes; the fire-pan burns.
558b. Those with (ready) hands stand to give an offering to N.

There's no question this device was of extreme importance and quite fragile. There was a feast at the beginning of the building season when it was taken out of storage and another feast at the end of the season when it was returned to storage. It was said to burn under that which the Gods create. I believe a prototype was found in the Tomb of Sabu. There is significant historical evidence for this contention.

Very few of the graves at Giza are pyramid builders. Even the big shots in the mastabas are generally not associated with building pyramids and there's not a single solitary ramp builder or ramp designer or anything to do with ramps among them. They do have jobs related to counterweights and the like though.

The problem with the great pyramids is that they are just too big to get enough men in there to build them. This suggests we are looking at the problem incorrectly. We need a means to get the manpower to bear or to utilize a motive force. I doubt there's any alternative and ramps are an functional impossibility.





____________
Man fears the pyramid, time fears man.
Subject Author Posted

A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 24, 2010 05:08PM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 24, 2010 07:45PM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 24, 2010 09:39PM

Re: A Serious Question

Jammer August 25, 2010 06:27AM

Re: A Serious Question

Anthony August 25, 2010 08:30AM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 26, 2010 11:01AM

speak english

Warwick L Nixon August 28, 2010 12:19PM

Re: A Serious Question

sansahansan August 25, 2010 03:02PM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 26, 2010 11:12AM

Re: A Serious Question

Rick Baudé August 25, 2010 09:42PM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 26, 2010 02:54PM

Re: A Serious Question

Rick Baudé August 26, 2010 03:19PM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 26, 2010 05:45PM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 28, 2010 02:55AM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 28, 2010 11:24AM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 28, 2010 02:44PM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 28, 2010 03:06PM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 28, 2010 05:28PM

Re: A Serious Question

Rick Baudé August 28, 2010 05:58PM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 29, 2010 02:28AM

Re: A Serious Question

Jammer August 30, 2010 10:44AM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 30, 2010 02:47PM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 30, 2010 02:55PM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 30, 2010 04:10PM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 30, 2010 04:31PM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 30, 2010 04:49PM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 30, 2010 11:39PM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 30, 2010 11:56PM

Re: A Serious Question

lobo-hotei August 31, 2010 08:11AM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 29, 2010 02:08AM

Why do you sidetrack every thread, troll?

lobo-hotei August 29, 2010 02:52AM

It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Warwick L Nixon August 29, 2010 02:02PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

cladking August 29, 2010 02:34PM

Bucket of mud.

Anthony August 29, 2010 05:04PM

Re: Bucket of mud.

cladking August 29, 2010 06:34PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Khazar-khum August 29, 2010 08:01PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Warwick L Nixon August 30, 2010 10:48AM

Hey, Warwick

Anthony August 30, 2010 02:36PM

Re: Hey, Warwick

Warwick L Nixon August 30, 2010 03:52PM

Re: Hey, Warwick

cladking August 30, 2010 04:13PM

Re: Hey, Warwick

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 10:19AM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Khazar-khum August 30, 2010 02:56PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Warwick L Nixon August 30, 2010 03:58PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

cladking August 30, 2010 04:17PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Khazar-khum August 30, 2010 04:35PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

cladking August 30, 2010 04:46PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Khazar-khum August 30, 2010 11:41PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

cladking August 31, 2010 12:05AM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

lobo-hotei August 31, 2010 08:16AM

Lobo

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 10:24AM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

cladking August 31, 2010 12:24PM

The point

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 12:33PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 10:09AM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

cladking August 31, 2010 12:39PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Hermione August 31, 2010 12:51PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

cladking August 31, 2010 01:22PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 01:32PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

cladking August 31, 2010 01:41PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Jammer August 30, 2010 10:59AM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

cladking August 30, 2010 04:21PM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 10:55AM

Re: It's like having a debate with a bucket of mud.

cladking August 31, 2010 12:43PM

Re: A Serious Question

Jammer August 30, 2010 10:55AM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 30, 2010 04:44PM

Re: A Serious Question

lobo-hotei August 31, 2010 08:43AM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 31, 2010 01:17PM

They levered large stones up a ramp? Yet you INSIST it doesn't apply?

Jammer August 31, 2010 01:50PM

Re: A Serious Question

Jammer August 30, 2010 10:02AM

Re: A Serious Question

Ogygos August 27, 2010 12:48AM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 28, 2010 02:53AM

Re: A Serious Question

Anthony August 28, 2010 08:23AM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 29, 2010 11:06AM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 29, 2010 08:03PM

A Serious Question

Jammer August 30, 2010 11:19AM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 30, 2010 02:41PM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 30, 2010 03:01PM

Re: A Serious Question

Warwick L Nixon August 30, 2010 04:05PM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 30, 2010 04:45PM

Re: A Serious Question

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 10:31AM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 31, 2010 04:08PM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 30, 2010 04:55PM

Hoist by his own petard

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 10:42AM

Re: Hoist by his own petard

cladking August 31, 2010 01:34PM

Re: Hoist by his own petard

Jammer August 31, 2010 01:57PM

Re: Hoist by his own petard

cladking August 31, 2010 02:18PM

Re: Hoist by his own petard

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 02:01PM

I hope you're hungry.

cladking August 31, 2010 02:34PM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

Jammer August 31, 2010 03:07PM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

Jammer August 31, 2010 03:09PM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

Jammer August 31, 2010 04:18PM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

cladking August 31, 2010 09:20PM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

Jammer September 02, 2010 02:10PM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

cladking September 02, 2010 06:51PM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 04:51PM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

cladking August 31, 2010 09:29PM

the bucket regurgitates

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 11:19PM

Re: the bucket regurgitates

cladking August 31, 2010 11:49PM

Re: the bucket regurgitates

Warwick L Nixon September 01, 2010 10:10AM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

lobo-hotei September 01, 2010 08:30AM

I hope you're hungry.

Jammer September 02, 2010 02:23PM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

Khazar-khum September 02, 2010 03:01PM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

cladking September 02, 2010 07:04PM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

Khazar-khum September 03, 2010 01:50AM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

Jammer September 03, 2010 06:21AM

Re: I hope you're hungry.

cladking September 02, 2010 06:59PM

Hoist by his own petard

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 10:49AM

Re: Hoist by his own petard

cladking August 31, 2010 01:50PM

Re: A Serious Question

Warwick L Nixon August 30, 2010 11:19AM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 30, 2010 05:20PM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 30, 2010 11:47PM

Re: A Serious Question

cladking August 31, 2010 12:11AM

Re: A Serious Question

Rick Baudé August 31, 2010 09:55AM

Re: A Serious Question

Khazar-khum August 31, 2010 04:15PM

Re: A Serious Question

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 05:07PM

Re: A Serious Question

Rick Baudé August 31, 2010 07:22PM

Re: A Serious Question

Warwick L Nixon August 31, 2010 07:39PM

**Thread closure**

Hermione September 03, 2010 09:16AM



Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed.