December 07, 2007 03:30AM
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Registered: 19 years ago
Posts: 618
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Pistol Wrote:
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> Fmetrol,
>
> It is equally possible that the hieroglyph used
> for a royal cubit is a short hand symbolic
> character, no pun intended, that roughly matches
> the length of a mans forearm with extended
> fingers; something that could be used universally
> when a measuring rod was not available.
We see it usually as a long "L" base extended to vaguely represent an arm's length. The question asked is ... does this represent a short or a long cubit? My belief (and experimentation with cubits) suggests it is the former, the short or common cubit. I am referring to its earliest representation here. If you take the simplest solution then an arm' length glyph has to look like an arm's length when marked on an limestone ostracon. The royal is not an arm's length measure.
> My impression is that the hieroglyphic symbol
> preceeds the use of a standardized royal cubit
> rod; the hieroglyph's original measurement meaning
> dating to a very early pre-dynastic period.
> Viewed in this manner you could say an arms length
> (which could have been any arm) eventually became
> a royal cubit rather than the reverse when
> standardization was inforced; it being more
> convenient to just assign the same hieroglyph
> rather than invent a new one for a measurement
> that was roughly the same.
I agree but the two cubits would both be standardized, no ... maybe together, and not necessarily compatible with each other (ie, 6/7ths the other). There appears to be a contradiction here for there is this belief that the short or common cubit preceded the long or royal cubit. I think this is based on the short cubit being identified much early than the other.
Personally I don't think the common became a royal and on the best advice I have it simply exceeded the common by three finger-breadths. This fact makes itself known by the identification of three divisions at the end of most rods to which the symbolism of the royal cubit is attached. I will post the examples we have (again) if anyone is interested.
> One problem moderns have had is to rationalize the
> standardization within the factual evidence, for
> example at Giza everyone wants the sides of G1 to
> be 440 royal cubits but when compared to Petries
> 20.62 inch royal cubit it is really 439.84 royal
> cubits. Rather than accept the odd length of 439
> + 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/150 as a desired length everyone
> wants to believe they used different lengthed rods
> for each part of the pyramid that does not agree
> with the kings chamber, noting that 1/150th of a
> royal cubit is just beyond 1/8th of an inch in
> terms of scale. The great thing about limestone
> is you can sand it down to what ever length you
> desire. We could hardly fault the ancients for
> having margins of error in their finished masonry,
> but I doubt that varient margins were acceptable
> to them when it came to measuring rods used on the
> same structure.
Oh boy do I agree with that. We always want to exert our arithmetic first, theirs last or not at all.
> In all probability the kings chamber was first
> built on the ground outside of the pyramid before
> being installed and eventually polished, this
> would give the workers time to perfect its
> design.
That's highly probable and I believe Petrie hinted at it as well.
> Best Regards,
>
> B.A. Hokom
Subject |
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Clive |
December 04, 2007 08:32PM |
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Dave L |
December 04, 2007 08:35PM |
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Clive |
December 04, 2007 10:28PM |
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C Wayne Taylor |
December 05, 2007 06:10AM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 04:19PM |
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Dave L |
December 05, 2007 07:22AM |
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Dave L |
December 05, 2007 08:25AM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 04:26PM |
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Dave L |
December 05, 2007 04:42PM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 04:48PM |
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L Cooper |
December 05, 2007 05:52PM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 10:19PM |
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L Cooper |
December 06, 2007 06:47AM |
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Clive |
December 06, 2007 11:18PM |
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Greg Reeder |
December 07, 2007 12:33PM |
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L Cooper |
December 09, 2007 08:27PM |
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Clive |
December 11, 2007 08:49PM |
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fmetrol |
December 05, 2007 05:10PM |
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Dave L |
December 05, 2007 05:19PM |
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Dave L |
December 05, 2007 05:22PM |
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fmetrol |
December 05, 2007 05:30PM |
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Dave L |
December 05, 2007 06:13PM |
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fmetrol |
December 06, 2007 06:06PM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 05:25PM |
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fmetrol |
December 05, 2007 05:36PM |
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Dave L |
December 05, 2007 06:20PM |
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fmetrol |
December 05, 2007 06:47PM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 10:22PM |
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Kanga |
December 06, 2007 09:37AM |
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Clive |
December 06, 2007 10:07PM |
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Anthony |
December 04, 2007 09:07PM |
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Clive |
December 04, 2007 11:25PM |
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Sirfiroth |
December 05, 2007 02:28AM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 04:38PM |
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Sirfiroth |
December 05, 2007 11:51PM |
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Clive |
December 06, 2007 01:48AM |
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Sirfiroth |
December 06, 2007 09:28PM |
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Clive |
December 06, 2007 10:45PM |
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Dave L |
December 07, 2007 06:42AM |
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Dave L |
December 06, 2007 10:07AM |
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Sirfiroth |
December 06, 2007 10:29PM |
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Dave L |
December 09, 2007 04:54PM |
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Sirfiroth |
December 11, 2007 06:45PM |
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Sirfiroth |
December 05, 2007 12:31AM |
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C Wayne Taylor |
December 05, 2007 06:20AM |
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cladking |
December 04, 2007 09:18PM |
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Clive |
December 04, 2007 11:31PM |
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Jammer |
December 05, 2007 10:08AM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 05, 2007 03:33AM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 04:45PM |
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Dave L |
December 05, 2007 04:51PM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 05:04PM |
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Morph |
December 05, 2007 06:22AM |
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fmetrol |
December 05, 2007 06:40AM |
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Morph |
December 08, 2007 06:31AM |
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fmetrol |
December 08, 2007 07:33AM |
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Morph |
December 08, 2007 08:50AM |
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Clive |
December 11, 2007 07:04PM |
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Jammer |
December 05, 2007 10:19AM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 05, 2007 12:30PM |
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Jammer |
December 05, 2007 03:22PM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 05, 2007 03:25PM |
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Dave L |
December 05, 2007 03:45PM |
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Kanga |
December 06, 2007 09:51AM |
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Anthony |
December 06, 2007 01:28PM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 06, 2007 06:17PM |
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fmetrol |
December 06, 2007 06:39PM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 06, 2007 06:59PM |
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Kanga |
December 06, 2007 07:51PM |
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fmetrol |
December 06, 2007 08:37PM |
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Pistol |
December 07, 2007 12:34AM |
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fmetrol |
December 07, 2007 03:30AM |
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Dave L |
December 06, 2007 08:53PM |
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fmetrol |
December 06, 2007 09:09PM |
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Dave L |
December 07, 2007 06:38AM |
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fmetrol |
December 07, 2007 08:08AM |
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Dave L |
December 09, 2007 04:57PM |
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Jammer |
December 07, 2007 01:33PM |
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Warwick L Nixon |
December 07, 2007 01:37PM |
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Jammer |
December 07, 2007 01:41PM |
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Warwick L Nixon |
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Clive |
December 06, 2007 09:51PM |
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Greg Reeder |
December 07, 2007 12:31PM |
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Clive |
December 11, 2007 07:12PM |
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Kanga |
December 11, 2007 08:04PM |
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Anthony |
December 11, 2007 08:10PM |
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Clive |
December 11, 2007 08:26PM |
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Anthony |
December 11, 2007 09:44PM |
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fmetrol |
December 11, 2007 08:30PM |
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Anthony |
December 11, 2007 09:43PM |
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fmetrol |
December 11, 2007 10:26PM |
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Clive |
December 12, 2007 12:23AM |
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fmetrol |
December 12, 2007 01:00AM |
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Clive |
December 12, 2007 06:00PM |
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fmetrol |
December 12, 2007 08:01PM |
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Clive |
December 12, 2007 10:22PM |
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fmetrol |
December 12, 2007 11:06PM |
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Clive |
December 12, 2007 11:57PM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 12, 2007 11:24PM |
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fmetrol |
December 12, 2007 11:37PM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 13, 2007 06:29AM |
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fmetrol |
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Clive |
December 13, 2007 09:51AM |
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fmetrol |
December 13, 2007 10:14AM |
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Anthony |
December 13, 2007 12:26PM |
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Chris Tedder |
December 13, 2007 01:00PM |
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Greg Reeder |
December 13, 2007 04:34PM |
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C Wayne Taylor |
December 13, 2007 05:11PM |
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fmetrol |
December 13, 2007 09:06PM |
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Chris Tedder |
December 14, 2007 04:01AM |
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fmetrol |
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Greg Reeder |
December 14, 2007 09:39AM |
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Chris Tedder |
December 14, 2007 03:22PM |
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Greg Reeder |
December 14, 2007 04:05PM |
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Chris Tedder |
December 14, 2007 05:30PM |
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Anthony |
December 14, 2007 09:21PM |
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C Wayne Taylor |
December 15, 2007 05:34AM |
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fmetrol |
December 15, 2007 06:45AM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 15, 2007 10:45AM |
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fmetrol |
December 15, 2007 11:02AM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 15, 2007 01:23PM |
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Anthony |
December 14, 2007 10:02AM |
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fmetrol |
December 14, 2007 10:19AM |
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Anthony |
December 14, 2007 10:27AM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 13, 2007 05:58PM |
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C Wayne Taylor |
December 14, 2007 05:53AM |
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Chris Tedder |
December 13, 2007 01:51PM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 13, 2007 02:05PM |
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Chris Tedder |
December 13, 2007 02:58PM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 14, 2007 09:13PM |
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Clive |
December 13, 2007 09:33AM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 12, 2007 10:57PM |
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Clive |
December 12, 2007 11:53PM |
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Hermione |
December 12, 2007 04:58AM |
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Clive |
December 11, 2007 08:23PM |
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Morph |
December 08, 2007 06:15AM |
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Clive |
December 11, 2007 08:27PM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 05:07PM |
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Jammer |
December 07, 2007 01:45PM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 05:02PM |
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Greg Reeder |
December 07, 2007 01:10PM |
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Warwick L Nixon |
December 05, 2007 11:17AM |
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Dave L |
December 05, 2007 03:43PM |
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Warwick L Nixon |
December 06, 2007 10:19AM |
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Dave L |
December 06, 2007 12:52PM |
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Warwick L Nixon |
December 07, 2007 01:25PM |
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rich |
December 05, 2007 03:14PM |
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Pistol |
December 05, 2007 03:27PM |
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Dave L |
December 05, 2007 03:35PM |
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Warwick L Nixon |
December 06, 2007 10:29AM |
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Dave L |
December 06, 2007 12:32PM |
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Warwick L Nixon |
December 06, 2007 12:50PM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 05:15PM |
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Pistol |
December 05, 2007 07:50PM |
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Clive |
December 05, 2007 10:31PM |
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Pistol |
December 06, 2007 11:45AM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 06, 2007 06:35PM |
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Clive |
December 06, 2007 11:43PM |
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Jammer |
December 07, 2007 01:51PM |
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Clive |
December 11, 2007 08:52PM |
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fmetrol |
December 11, 2007 09:27PM |
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Clive |
December 12, 2007 12:43AM |
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Dave L |
December 12, 2007 09:05AM |
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fmetrol |
December 12, 2007 09:51AM |
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Hermione |
December 12, 2007 10:00AM |
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Jammer |
December 12, 2007 11:57AM |
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Clive |
December 12, 2007 06:20PM |
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Anthony |
December 12, 2007 06:28PM |
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cladking |
December 12, 2007 07:38PM |
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Anthony |
December 12, 2007 08:02PM |
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cladking |
December 12, 2007 08:21PM |
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fmetrol |
December 12, 2007 07:53PM |
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Jammer |
December 14, 2007 08:43AM |
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Clive |
December 14, 2007 11:43AM |
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Warwick L Nixon |
December 14, 2007 11:49AM |
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Clive |
December 14, 2007 01:08PM |
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Warwick L Nixon |
December 14, 2007 01:15PM |
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Jammer |
December 14, 2007 01:58PM |
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Warwick L Nixon |
December 14, 2007 02:03PM |
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Jammer |
December 14, 2007 02:23PM |
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Warwick L Nixon |
December 14, 2007 02:33PM |
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Kanga |
December 06, 2007 09:43AM |
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Greg Reeder |
December 07, 2007 12:38PM |
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fmetrol |
December 07, 2007 05:33PM |
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Greg Reeder |
December 07, 2007 05:59PM |
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fmetrol |
December 07, 2007 06:33PM |
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L Cooper |
December 08, 2007 08:08AM |
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Dave L |
December 09, 2007 04:52PM |
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Greg Reeder |
December 09, 2007 07:21PM |
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Clive |
December 11, 2007 08:34PM |
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fmetrol |
December 11, 2007 08:39PM |
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Clive |
December 11, 2007 08:50PM |
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fmetrol |
December 11, 2007 08:59PM |
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Clive |
December 11, 2007 08:32PM |
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poundr17 |
December 08, 2007 04:18PM |
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fmetrol |
December 08, 2007 06:09PM |
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David Johnson |
December 15, 2007 09:43AM |
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Clive |
December 15, 2007 11:36AM |
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David Johnson |
December 17, 2007 04:11AM |
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Clive |
December 17, 2007 06:15PM |
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Chris Tedder |
December 17, 2007 07:55PM |
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Chris Tedder |
December 17, 2007 06:46AM |
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fmetrol |
December 17, 2007 08:47AM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 06, 2007 06:28PM |
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Clive |
December 06, 2007 09:01PM |
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MJ Thomas |
December 07, 2007 09:07AM |
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Anthony |
December 06, 2007 09:53PM |
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L Cooper |
December 06, 2007 11:51PM |
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Hermione |
December 07, 2007 10:32AM |