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May 18, 2024, 6:30 am UTC    
October 07, 2001 02:11PM
<HTML>Well, this shows what I have told you for some time now: Davidovits have produced something that LOOKS like fayence, but IS NO fayence. Fayence, to repeat myself for the millionth time, consists of quarz grains bound together by GLASS and not by some zeolite.

For the proposed low-temperature-process I quote from Nicholson (Egyptian Fayence & Glass, p. 42) about the stages of glass making (which are up to the fritting nearly identical with fayence):

"Silicia was obtained from sand, <b>crushed flint</b> or quartz."

Well flint is one of the hydro-silicas you namely quoted. So if they used it for glass - hey, they could melt it with a candle. But let's go on:

"The silica is the network former for glass but, in order to melt it at sufficiently low temperatures, ancient workers found it necessary to add a network modifier in the form of alkali. This served as flux in the process."

Well, up to here it goes conform with Davidovits.

"Alkalis were added in the form of plant ashes ... or as natron. Ancient texts ... do not mention the addition of lime and it must be supposed that this was generally present as an impurity in sand. ...
Alkali consists of carbonates which react with the silica to make sodium silicate and carbon dioxide.
[...]
The first stage, known as fritting, involved the heating together of the raw materials at a temperature between 700 and 50°C until they formed a mass resembling partly melted sugar. ... if 850°C is exceeded the mixture ... begins to melt."

So THAT is the needed temperature when YOUR OWN reciepe is used. 850°C to melt such a material together. Not 1300 °C

Back to fayence: Unfortunately some body materials found have so less Al-content that it is not measureable, and half of the samples analyzed by Lucas have contents between 0,1 and 0,6% - a little low for such a necessary material, isn't it?

My final words are a quote from Nicholson (Egyptian Fayence & Glass, p. 16): "Faience, frits and glass are part of a continuum of materials based on silica plus varying amounts of alkali, lime and copper, though they are distinct in terms of their composition since it would not be possible to turn fayence into frit or frit into glass simply py prolongig heating...
The addition of further alkali would be necessary.
...
It is not unlikely, that faience, frit and glass were all made in close proximity, possibly in the same workshop complex..."

It is ONE family.

Faience = Frit with less alkali and fired shorter, not onto its all melted but until you have a stable glass matrix and an opaque body

frit = glass with less Alkali and fired shorter, too, to get only a translucent piece without remining opaque body

glass = transparent, yet colored alkali rich frit.

Unless Davidovits can produce faience with glass matrix, it's finito for the theory.

FD</HTML>
Subject Author Posted

Geopolymer... 1 piece at a time

Anthony October 04, 2001 11:43AM

Question 1... timeframe

Anthony October 04, 2001 11:47AM

Re: Question 1... timeframe

Sandy J. Perkins October 05, 2001 10:23AM

Nice answers

Anthony October 05, 2001 10:44AM

Re: Nice answers

Claire October 05, 2001 10:50AM

Re: Nice answers

Sandy J. Perkins October 05, 2001 11:04AM

Easy, boy....down Sandy....

Anthony October 05, 2001 01:10PM

I hunted it down

Sandy J. Perkins October 05, 2001 11:24PM

Re: Nice answers

Frank Doernenburg October 05, 2001 01:18PM

Frank...

Anthony October 05, 2001 01:24PM

Re: Frank...

Frank Doernenburg October 05, 2001 05:09PM

Wrong Frank

Sandy J. Perkins October 05, 2001 11:06PM

Sandy...

Anthony October 06, 2001 05:32AM

Answer

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 05:47AM

Re: Answer

Anthony October 06, 2001 05:49AM

Re: Answer

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 06:00AM

Amazing

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 06:45AM

Re: Amazing

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 07:00AM

Frank...

Anthony October 06, 2001 07:02AM

Double Amazing

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 12:12PM

Talk to me, Sandy

Anthony October 06, 2001 12:17PM

Re: Double Amazing

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 06:32PM

Triple Amazing!

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 04:12AM

Re: Triple Amazing!

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 05:23AM

Reprimand for Frank

Anthony October 07, 2001 07:31AM

Re: Is this link of any help?

al-Urman October 07, 2001 07:47AM

quintuple amazing

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 07:57AM

Re: quintuple amazing

al-Urman October 07, 2001 08:05AM

Re: One more try ...

al-Urman October 07, 2001 08:08AM

Re: One more try ...

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 09:11AM

Opals vs Opal ct

Anthony October 07, 2001 09:24AM

Re: Opals vs Opal ct

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 09:51AM

FD Out to Lunch!

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 02:15PM

Re: FD Out to Lunch!

Anthony October 07, 2001 02:32PM

Opal Ct

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 02:53PM

Re: FD Out to Lunch!

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 02:59PM

Re: FD Out to Lunch!

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 02:32PM

Re: FD Out to Lunch!

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 03:02PM

Re: FD Out to Lunch!

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 03:33PM

Re: Inside or outside?

al-Urman October 07, 2001 03:39PM

Re: Inside or outside?

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 04:00PM

Re: One more try ...

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 09:23AM

Most Incredible Thing I've Ever Seen

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 02:20PM

Re: Most Incredible Thing I've Ever Seen

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 03:41PM

Re: One more try ...

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 02:08PM

What???

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 02:02PM

Not very amazing

Anthony October 07, 2001 08:07AM

Re: Not very amazing

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 08:47AM

Re: Not very amazing

Anthony October 07, 2001 09:05AM

Re: Not very amazing

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 10:15AM

HEY! Sandy... question

Anthony October 07, 2001 10:41AM

Anthony - Answer

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 02:46PM

Re: Anthony - Answer

Anthony October 07, 2001 05:27PM

Re: Anthony - Answer

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 05:37PM

FD's Latest Ball of Confusion

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 02:30PM

Bad Sandy... BAD!

Anthony October 07, 2001 02:38PM

Unfair!

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 03:15PM

Re: Unfair!

Anthony October 07, 2001 05:34PM

Re: Unfair!

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 06:25PM

Perspectives

Anthony October 07, 2001 07:06PM

Dr. Perkins - Congrats!

Cliff Synder October 08, 2001 07:02AM

Mr. Snyder

Anthony October 08, 2001 07:23AM

Re: Dr. Perkins - Congrats!

Blue October 08, 2001 01:11PM

Re: Dr. Perkins - Congrats!

Anthony October 08, 2001 02:10PM

Re: Dr. Perkins - Congrats!

Blue October 08, 2001 02:15PM

Re: Dr. Perkins - Congrats!

Anthony October 08, 2001 02:33PM

Re: Reprimand for Frank

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 01:59PM

See my post below with your name on it FD

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 01:52PM

Re: Answer

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 06:36AM

Ref. on Artificial Sandstone

Anthony October 05, 2001 01:30PM

Independent Confirmation

Anthony October 05, 2001 03:45PM

Question for Frank...

Anthony October 05, 2001 03:48PM

Re: Question for Frank...

al-Urman October 05, 2001 03:49PM

Re: Question for Frank...

Frank Doernenburg October 05, 2001 05:15PM

Excellent points by Frank...Q for Sandy

Anthony October 05, 2001 05:22PM

Here's the reference (I thought I had seen it)

Anthony October 05, 2001 05:26PM

Re: Here's the reference (I thought I had seen it)

Greg Reeder October 05, 2001 08:32PM

Fayence - a summary

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 04:04AM

Excellent job, Frank... final judgment

Anthony October 06, 2001 05:36AM

Re: Excellent job, Frank... final judgment

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 05:50AM

Faience, without clay

Anthony October 06, 2001 05:58AM

Re: Faience, without clay

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 06:43AM

SANDY &amp; FRANK...HELLO!

Anthony October 06, 2001 07:00AM

Re: SANDY &amp; FRANK...HELLO!

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 07:13AM

Re: SANDY &amp; FRANK...HELLO!

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 07:23AM

Frank ...?

Anthony October 06, 2001 07:34AM

Re: Frank ...?

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 07:44AM

Sandy...OVER HERE!

Anthony October 06, 2001 08:04AM

Anthony Look Here

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 11:18AM

Sandy... I'm looking

Anthony October 06, 2001 12:13PM

Be Selective

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 04:22AM

Re: Amorphous silica

al-Urman October 07, 2001 04:45AM

Amorphous silica in Geopolymer

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 05:39AM

Amorphous Silica...LONG post

Anthony October 07, 2001 07:54AM

Re: Amorphous Silica...LONG post

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 03:19PM

Re: Excellent job, Frank... final judgment

al-Urman October 06, 2001 09:19AM

Hot stuff

Anthony October 06, 2001 10:30AM

Foundation of knowledge

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 07:15AM

Get the Real Point

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 07:04AM

SANDY!!!!!!!!! A new rule

Anthony October 06, 2001 07:17AM

Take this to heart

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 11:34AM

Re: Take this to heart

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 01:13PM

Heartless comments...lol

Anthony October 06, 2001 01:45PM

Re: Heartless comments...lol

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 01:55PM

Sorry to annoy you...

Anthony October 06, 2001 02:08PM

Settng the Record Straight

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 05:09AM

Settng the Record Straight

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 05:21AM

Settng the Record Straight

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 05:22AM

Need I Say More?

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 04:38AM

Re: Need I Say More?

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 05:46AM

BRAVO FRANK!

Anthony October 07, 2001 08:16AM

To All Re: Frank's Olive Branch

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 01:10PM

Helluva post, Sandy J

Anthony October 07, 2001 01:25PM

Re: Paradigm shift

al-Urman October 07, 2001 01:49PM

Re: To All Re: Frank's Olive Branch

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 02:11PM

Refuting the theory

Anthony October 07, 2001 02:44PM

Re: Refuting the theory

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 03:20PM

To All

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 06:06PM

Nice points

Anthony October 07, 2001 07:13PM

Re: To All

Frank Doernenburg October 08, 2001 03:57AM

Re: Independent Confirmation

Greg Reeder October 05, 2001 05:14PM

Re: Independent Confirmation

Frank Doernenburg October 05, 2001 05:18PM

Yes Anthony

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 06:07AM

Explanation

Sandy J. Perkins October 05, 2001 11:40PM

Absolutely Correct

Anthony October 06, 2001 05:47AM

Re: Absolutely Correct

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 07:36AM

Pay Attention

Sandy J. Perkins October 07, 2001 05:48AM

Re: Pay Attention

Frank Doernenburg October 07, 2001 06:00AM

Re: Ref. on Artificial Sandstone

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 07:16AM

Re: Ref. on Artificial Sandstone

Anthony October 06, 2001 07:19AM

Re: Ref. on Artificial Sandstone

Frank Doernenburg October 06, 2001 07:25AM

Re: Question 1... timeframe

R. Avry Wilson October 04, 2001 04:11PM

Re: Question 1... timeframe

Anthony October 04, 2001 04:24PM

Re: Question 1... timeframe

Sandy J. Perkins October 05, 2001 11:17AM

Re: Question 1... timeframe

Anthony October 05, 2001 01:13PM

Re: Question 1... timeframe

Chris Dunn October 05, 2001 08:38PM

Re: Question 1... timeframe

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 12:04AM

Re: Question 1... timeframe

Chris Dunn October 07, 2001 07:16PM

Valid point

Anthony October 07, 2001 07:35PM

Re: May I?

al-Urman October 07, 2001 11:03PM

Re: May I?

Anthony October 08, 2001 05:49AM

Your horse

Chris Dunn October 05, 2001 08:59PM

Re: Your horse

Anthony October 05, 2001 09:30PM

Re: Your horse

Chris Dunn October 05, 2001 10:00PM

Re: Your horse

al-Urman October 06, 2001 01:14AM

Paul &amp; Chris

Anthony October 06, 2001 05:44AM

Hi Tech Advocates

Anthony October 06, 2001 05:51AM

Big Problem

Sandy J. Perkins October 06, 2001 07:25AM

Update

Anthony October 05, 2001 10:18AM

Sandy...Q1 : timeframe

R. Avry Wilson October 06, 2001 04:34PM

Avry

Anthony October 06, 2001 04:42PM

Re: Avry

R. Avry Wilson October 06, 2001 05:05PM



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