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engbren Wrote:
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...
> Thank you for posting. Unfortunately, I cannot
> read French. I have had a little success with
> Google Translate which has given me a bit of
> insight into the articles content. I am quite sure
> that the translation is quite mangled though!
Sorry you're having all these problems, Engbr
by
Hermione
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Ancient Egypt
Hermione Wrote:
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> If you can read French, "L’herminette et la
> cuisse, histoire d’un taureau parmi les étoiles"
> (Thuault) might be of interest:
>
>
> (There's an English abstract).
Hi Hermione,
Thank you for posting. Unfortunately, I cannot read French. I have had a little success with Google
by
engbren
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Ancient Egypt
If you can read French, "L’herminette et la cuisse, histoire d’un taureau parmi les étoiles" (Thuault) might be of interest:
(There's an English abstract).
by
Hermione
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Ancient Egypt
Byrd Wrote:
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> For those of you wanting to follow this and
> comment, Conman herself has uploaded a PDF of the
> book to academia.edu:
>
It turns out to be the introduction only ...
by
Hermione
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Ancient Egypt
Building upon my prior post here: , Conman argues that Meshketiu is not a constellation but rather a “planetary god of time” and the planet represented she argues is Saturn. Conman justifies this identification through a review of the extant texts, citing movements that Meskhetiu makes that a circumpolar constellation cannot make but an outer planet can. Conman does not however propose any alter
by
engbren
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Ancient Egypt
Hermione Wrote:
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> engbren Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> > I have been able to find a copy of G.A.
> > Wainwrights paper here:
> >
>
>
> Thanks for this, engbren.
>
> IIRC I looked for it on Wayback, but coudn't find
> it ...
Hi Hermione
by
engbren
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Ancient Egypt
engbren Wrote:
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> I have been able to find a copy of G.A.
> Wainwrights paper here:
>
Thanks for this, engbren.
IIRC I looked for it on Wayback, but coudn't find it ...
by
Hermione
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Ancient Egypt
I have been able to find a copy of G.A. Wainwrights paper here: so updating the discussion relating to Conman's claims:
1. Wainwright cites a secondary source of Dieterich by leveraging select quotes contained in Nock and in doing so has missed the fact that Dieterich had already accepted Meskhetiu to be the Big Dipper and hence instead of supporting his argument, the citation creates a
by
engbren
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Ancient Egypt
Looking at the Meskhetiu claim, the supporting evidence is sprinkled throughout the book. The first set of claims which challenge the generally accepted view can be broadly viewed as an argument that Wainwright incorrectly ascribed Meskhetiu to the Big Dipper. Conman’s supporting arguments include:
1. Wainwright cites a secondary source of Dieterich by leveraging select quotes contained in Nock
by
engbren
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Ancient Egypt
For those of you wanting to follow this and comment, Conman herself has uploaded a PDF of the book to academia.edu:
by
Byrd
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Hermione,
Performing a search for "Conman Meskhetiu" and allowing across all boards and all timeframes provides results with this thread as well as a few disparate threads. It appears that Joanne posted here on Meskhetiu approximately 17 years ago. Reading through her posts, it appears that they related to a time when she had not yet formed the opinion she presents in Sky Lore tha
by
engbren
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Ancient Egypt
engbren Wrote:
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> I recently received a copy of Joanne Conmans “Sky
> Lore” and have done my first read end to end of
> the book. On this first read, I found it to offer
> an interesting challenge to the orthodox position
> on the Egyptian astronomical texts. For me,
> Conman’s ideas in particular around Meskhetiu hav
by
Hermione
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Ancient Egypt
I recently received a copy of Joanne Conmans “Sky Lore” and have done my first read end to end of the book. On this first read, I found it to offer an interesting challenge to the orthodox position on the Egyptian astronomical texts. For me, Conman’s ideas in particular around Meskhetiu have some merit, and are deserving of another read in-depth to tease out any concerns. To that end, I wondered
by
engbren
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Ancient Egypt
Hermione Wrote:
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> > Joanne Conman, It's about Time: Ancient
> Egyptian
> > Cosmology, Studien zur Altägyptischen Kultur ,
> > 2003, Bd. 31 (2003), pp. 33-71, accessed from
> >
> > Joanne Conman, The Egyptian Origins of
> Planetary
> > Hypsomata, Discussions in Egyptology 64
> >
by
engbren
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Ancient Egypt
engbren Wrote:
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> Hi Mark,
>
> With respect to Step 10, you may find the
> following papers by Joanne Conman of interest. The
> first, published in 2003 proposes to set aside
> Neugebauer and Parker's proposals for a model of
> the Egyptian Decan stars and proposes a new model
> consistent with the descr
by
Hermione
-
Ancient Egypt
Hi Mark,
With respect to Step 10, you may find the following papers by Joanne Conman of interest. The first, published in 2003 proposes to set aside Neugebauer and Parker's proposals for a model of the Egyptian Decan stars and proposes a new model consistent with the descriptions of how the decans operate from the Carlsberg Papyrus. The second paper builds upon this model to demonstrate t
by
engbren
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Alex,
Regarding the 45 degree contention here are a couple of pictures. First the alignments to Heliopolis (H) and Djedefre (D) from Giza (G) -
- you'll notice I propose a geometrical scheme for these alignments but for the moment ignore this.
The second picture shows the root two 45 degree construction in Khufu, defining the floorline of the King's burial chamber (and a
by
robin cook
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Ancient Egypt
Thanks Lee and Hermione...
I don't see how you can dispute something so fundamental without offering an alternative. Haven't seen enough to make me want to by the book.
by
Sam
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Ancient Egypt
L Cooper Wrote:
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...
> P.S. - I've been able access Thompson's site, with
> links intact, here
>
>
> Thank you Hermione.
Well, thank you, Lee! I think I must have been having a Bad Links day ...
by
Hermione
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Ancient Egypt
Sam Wrote:
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> I was able to see the links this morning, now I
> can't. Read a lot till I started going in circles.
> Still could not determine what Conman believes the
> AE called the ncp region.
I've read through her "Sky Lore" book and I don't think she ever does address this. Her theme seems to
by
L Cooper
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Ancient Egypt
I was able to see the links this morning, now I can't. Read a lot till I started going in circles. Still could not determine what Conman believes the AE called the ncp region.
by
Sam
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Ancient Egypt
L Cooper Wrote:
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> I'm just now reading Joanne Conman's book,
> "Ancient Egyptian Sky Lore" for the first time. I
> am wondering if anyone else has read this work and
> what their take has been.
>
> While I believe that she is wildly off the mark in
> some respects, I don't know enough
by
Hermione
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Ancient Egypt
Thanks Robin. Very interesting theories. If Meskhetiu was part of the eastern Horizon and the thigh was Bootes, then what did the AE call the northern polar region? Ursa Major? Anyone?
by
Sam
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Sam,
I read it here -
I'm looking forward to her 'Ancient Egyptian Sky Lore' to arrive. Meanwhile I stumble upon other unorthodox propositions like this -
Alessandro Berio - 'The Celestial River: Identifying the Ancient Egyptian Constellations'.
He writes -
'This paper proposes that a new opportunity has arisen for deciphering the ancient Egy
by
robin cook
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Ancient Egypt
??? What does canopus have to do with the Amun cult? Not doubting , just curious.
by
Sam
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Ancient Egypt
I went to download 'Ancient Egyptian Sky Lore: Rethinking the Conventional Wisdom' but Academia apparently wants to share my contact list (?). So I read 'The Egyptian Origins of Planetary Hypsomata'. (Are any scholarly reviews of this paper available?)
I'm no expert but I found Joanne Conman's thesis convincing - that the AE defined their calendar from the timing
by
robin cook
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Ancient Egypt
I don't think I know of any one text that answers your question. I use a variety of sources when trying to get a sense of this.
Faulkner, in his 3 vol. Coffin Text translations, will often give information in his footnotes as to which spell, or which part of a spell, likely derives from much older source material. Then there's Allen's Coffin Texts Vol. 8, "Middle Kingdom
by
L Cooper
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Ancient Egypt
L Cooper Wrote:
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> I don't see
> this at all, especially not in the Pyramid Texts
> and the earlier parts of the Coffin texts.
Is there some easily understood reference which would provide guidance on when a specific "spell" in the Coffin Texts was first seen?
by
cladking
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Avry - Thank you for your thoughtful reply to my query.
My main problem with Conman's approach is that she seems to be placing too much connection between the Dendera and Edfu findings with the far earlier Middle and Old Kingdom material. She appears to want to see an early form of astrology at the heart of the Pyramid and Coffin Texts. I don't see this at all, especially not in
by
L Cooper
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Lee,
It is a thoughtful read, from my perspective.
I would say I disagree with the observations on Sah, and other aspects of ancient Egyptian interpretations of the sky. I reviewed the sections multiple times to ensure I had removed my personal bias, i.e. perceptions of a certain 'theory' I wish not to name in this discussion. Thereafter, I feel my disagreement stands; I belie
by
Principia
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Ancient Egypt
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