Joe: "For instance, how can we be sure that the reference to sAH in the Cannibal Hymn was not a later addition to an older, already existing text to bring it into line with current beliefs? The bottom line is: we cannot be sure until an older version of that text is discovered that we can compare the PT version to. You can't just take any passage you like from the PTs and extrapolate i
by
Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Horus, the sky deity, god of kingship, and one of the primary deities attested at Giza, not only had an important solar aspect to his multi-faceted celestial persona, but also a stellar aspect.
Some examples of Early Dynastic seal impressions: 'Horus, star of the corporation' (Hrw-sbA-ht), Anedjib, Dyn 1; 'Horus risen as a star' (Hrw-h-sbA), Hetepsekhemwy, Dyn 2; 'Horu
by
Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Robert,
> The ancient Egyptian calendar was primarily used
> for religious purposes. The 'rebirth' rituals were
> surely calendrical in that they related to the
> 'prt spdt' i.e. heliacal rising of Sirius.
Agreed.
The
> 'mswt r' i.e. 'birth of Re', was calendrical and
> always celebrated on I Akhet 1 i.e. 'wp
by
Ritva Kurittu
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Ritva,
The ancient Egyptian calendar was primarily used for religious purposes. The 'rebirth' rituals were surely calendrical in that they related to the 'prt spdt' i.e. heliacal rising of Sirius. The 'mswt r' i.e. 'birth of Re', was calendrical and always celebrated on I Akhet 1 i.e. 'wp rnpt' The New Year's Day.
The calendar, u
by
Robert Bauval
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Ancient Egypt
Robert Bauval Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The enclosure or boundary wall of the Step Pyramid
> complex of Djoser is one of the most intriguing
> architectural edifice of the Old Kingdom. The wall
> is 10.5 meters high and its length is 1645 meters
> (544.9 x 277.6 meters) But this is not just a
> simple wall, though. It has 192 ‘bastio
by
Ronald
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Robert,
While I do agree with you about the calendar having been in place by the time of Djoser, I must say that I don't agree with the idea of the calendar in his burial enclosure. This mostly because I don't see the idea of a mere calendar linking to the idea of a burial. Yes, the afterlife was seen as cyclic, and yes, that cycle was based on the heliacal rise of Sirius, but fro
by
Ritva Kurittu
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Ancient Egypt
The civil calendar 'invented' at Heliopolis in the late 3rd millennium BC was based, at least originally, on the heliacal rising of Sirius.
You don't think it was based on the Summer Solstice...?
West side: 1461 (sothic period)
East side: 1459 (sothic period)
south side: 366 (sothic Quadriennium)
north side: 366 (sothic Quadriennium)
What indication is
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Graham,
Graham Chase Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Robert,
>
> Can you explain a bit more about the numbers.
I thought I did.
The civil calendar was set at 365 days; it thus drifted 1 day every 4 years relative to the heliacal tising of Sirius (Sothis sidereal year 365.35). We thus get the Sothic Quadreinnium 366 (365,365,365, 366) a
by
Robert Bauval
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Ancient Egypt
The enclosure or boundary wall of the Step Pyramid complex of Djoser is one of the most intriguing architectural edifice of the Old Kingdom. The wall is 10.5 meters high and its length is 1645 meters (544.9 x 277.6 meters) But this is not just a simple wall, though. It has 192 ‘bastions’, 14 ‘false doors’, and 1680 recesses. The recesses must have had a very important significance, for as Lehner
by
Robert Bauval
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Ancient Egypt
OK, I can go along with you here. But the question remains: in what way was this importent for the ancient Egyptians. What role did Regulus play in their cosmology?
I have associated this with two givens, Sopdet was seen as giving birth to the New Year, Sopdet gave birth to Sopdu, thus i have directly related Sopdu to the New Year/Solstice and identified Sopdu with Regulus...this can only
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
Morph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as this particular unobservable phenomena
> goes, i would have thought it quite simple to
> observe the rate of progression along the ecliptic
> path of Regulus, and back track it to the solstice
> in terms of literally rising merged with the
> Sun...
>
>
>
> Morph.
OK, I
by
Jeff van Hout
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Ancient Egypt
Morph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Jeff,
>
>
> i was looking at the figures for 2570
> Bc, there is obviously a slight differance in 2470
> Bc. Of course there will be variations on this if
> the viewpoint is elsewhere in Egypt, i was
> considering this with regards to Giza and the
> vicinity of Memphis, pla
by
Jeff van Hout
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Jeff,
i was looking at the figures for 2570 Bc, there is obviously a slight differance in 2470 Bc. Of course there will be variations on this if the viewpoint is elsewhere in Egypt, i was considering this with regards to Giza and the vicinity of Memphis, places such as Abydos would be interesting i guess regarding Sirius, so i wouldn't argue exclusivity for any particular
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
In his revised edition of 'The Pyramids of Egypt' (1985), Dr Edwards also mentions the stellar aspect. Some Dyn. 4 pyramids had names linked with stars - the name of the pyramid of Khufu's successor Djedefra, was, 'Djedefre is a sehed-star'. A grandson of Khufu had a pyramid with the name 'Nebka is a Star'. Edwards concludes these names "clearly associate
by
Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Well maybe some qualification might also be need on Bauval's quotation second post down...?
The year and calendar were determined by the Nile and by the stars. New Year was in mid July, when the river began to rise for the inundation; this coincided with the reappearance of the star Sirius, Egyptian Sothis, in the sky after seventy days' invisibility.” John Baines, Time and
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
If anyone is subscribed to the History of Astronomy list, here, from 1999, is a link to a post by Bradley Schaefer on the subject of the heliacal rise of Sirius.
by
Hermione
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Jeff,
yes i think that is were the differance lies, regarding opinion as to what consititutes an heliacal rising, by definition this is simply Of or relating to the sun, especially rising and setting with the sun, the dates i have been giving are when the given stars literally did rise with the Sun, if qualifications are brought in as to when they would have risen before th
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Jeff,
Moreover, there is no evidence of Giza being the surveying point. The 17th dynasty inscription in Gebel Tjauti tells us that, at that time at least, the Heliacal rising of Sirius was awaited to be obsevred on a hill in the desert (to avoid athmospheric disturbance, the text tells us) west of Thebes i.e. a more southern location. This would naturally, alter the date of heliacal rising
by
Ritva Kurittu
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Ancient Egypt
I'm not sure if that's the case or not, however i've checked the software against known Solstice locations for the present and its working fine, giving me correct date of June 21st and correct solstice angles for various locations.
Could you tell me if you are seeing the heliacal rising of Sirius before or after the solstice...???...i get the helaical rising of Sirius on 6th
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
Hé Morph,
On july 6 2470 BCE as seen from Giza, the sun and Sirius would be rising at approximatly the same time (ca. 45 min past 4)
This is NOT a heliacal rising of Sirius!!
Sirius would remain totally invisible because of the light of the sun.
You would have to wait for ca. 12 days to see Sirius rising before the sun.
Sirius can only be spotted when a few degrees above the horizo
by
Jeff van Hout
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Ancient Egypt
The date and location i'm using are correct, what time system could cause a discrepancy...???...also are you seeing Regulus rising with the sun at Solstice.
I actually get the heliacal rising of Sirius on the 6th July, with the Sun at 63*, thus 6 days before the date i get for the solstice on the 12th July, there is a 10 day differance between what i see and what you get.
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
Morph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I need some clarification here, are we talking
> about the present or the past, i know that our
> Summer Solstice is on 21st June, and thus
> something occuring on 26th June is four or five
> days after solstice, but if we're talking Egypt
> 2570 Bc then the Summer Solstice is July 12th
> rela
by
Robert Bauval
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Ancient Egypt
The heliacal rising of Sirius took place on 18 July Julian, corresponding to 25 June Gregorian, 4 days AFTER the summer solstice.
I need some clarification here, are we talking about the present or the past, i know that our Summer Solstice is on 21st June, and thus something occuring on 26th June is four or five days after solstice, but if we're talking Egypt 2570 Bc then the Summer
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
The Heliacal rising of Sirius in c.2570 BC, as witnessed at Memphis,was on the 17-18 July (Julian) corresponding to about 24-25 June (Gregorian). This was 3-4 days AFTER the summer solstice, with the sun at azimuth 61 deg. 30'.
It really isn't neccesary to bring in considerations such as the Julian and Gregorian calendar in order to obfuscate, the simple fact is that the heliacal r
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
Yes, one can only observe that the principle rising points of the Sun upon the horizon at dawn, also marked the rising place of principle stars at night, Regulus for the summer solstice at 62*, Spica for the Mid-May quarter year point at 76*, Sirius for the winter solstice at 118*.
Morph.
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
Chris Tedder is absolutely correct.
The Heliacal rising of Sirius in c.2570 BC, as witnessed at Memphis,was on the 17-18 July (Julian) corresponding to about 24-25 June (Gregorian). This was 3-4 days AFTER the summer solstice, with the sun at azimuth 61 deg. 30'.
You wrote: "That's not correct Chris, on June 26th 2570 Bc the Sun is rising at 65* Giza, the solstice occoured lat
by
Robert Bauval
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Ancient Egypt
In northern Egypt, the heliacal rising of Sirius (spdt), took place around June 26th +- 2 days during the OK, and roughly coincided with when the ancient Egyptians expected the beginning of the annual flooding of the Nile at Abu (Aswan) in southern Egypt. The exact timing of the flooding varied, as it depended on when the monsoon rains fell on the Abyssinian plateau, but it normally began around
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Morph,
In northern Egypt, the heliacal rising of Sirius (spdt), took place around June 26th +- 2 days during the OK, and roughly coincided with when the ancient Egyptians expected the beginning of the annual flooding of the Nile at Abu (Aswan) in southern Egypt. The exact timing of the flooding varied, as it depended on when the monsoon rains fell on the Abyssinian plateau, but it normal
by
Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
In 2,570 Bc the heliacal rising of Regulus takes place at 62* on July 12th 4.45 am, whilst Sirius has risen at 117* at 4.22 am, thus Sirius has risen some twenty minutes before what would have been the climactic point of the stellar year with the merging of Regulus and the Sun.
It should also be added that 62* marks the position of summer solstice for this date, thus the heliacal rising/merg
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt
As the brightest star in the sky Sirius was probably in the Old Kingdom seen as the primary representative of the Ba/Soul released at death, it's seventy day periodic relevent to the period of preperation of the body of the deceased, by Anubis, Canis Major.
There is no doubt that in the Late/Classical Period Sirius was associated with the New Year and Nile innundation, with confusion
by
Morph
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Ancient Egypt