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May 3, 2024, 4:13 am UTC    
May 19, 2010 07:14PM
Don,

518 x 183 m; 515 x 180 m; 500 x 185 m – perhaps these measurements are a mix of inside and outside measurements of the enclosure (the walls are over 3 m thick), which might explain some of the differences.


The enclosure is made up of three areas: a central rectangular area where the longer side is more or less the length of the diagonal of a square with sides equal to the shorter side, a square extension to the north, and a 1 : 2 rectangular extension to the south. The width of the enclosure is about a third of the overall length.


I don’t have the original survey measurements, only a plan of the enclosure in Lauer’s book ‘Saqqara’ (Lauer 1976: 139), where the measurements are in cubits.

According to Lauer’s drawing, the step pyramid is in the centre of a 500 x 348 cubit enclosure. To the north is a 354 x 348 cubit extension, and to the south a 174 x 348 cubit extension.

Overall inside length / width of the enclosure: 1040 x 348 cubits.

Overall outside length / width: 1052 x 360 cubits (enclosure walls: 6 cubits thick (~3.142 m).


It would be interesting to see the original survey measurements, as there is a tendency with long distances to round up or down to the nearest whole cubit or even to the nearest ten cubits when converting metres to cubits.


Lauer’s width measurement is different from that given in the Giza Mastaba’s series (No. 7, p. 98):

“If the dimensions of the S given in Inti’s inscription are indeed 1,000 x 440 cubits, that is, 525 x 231 meters (see further note f), it is perhaps worth mentioning that these dimensions are roughly the same as those of the pyramid complexes of Djoser and Sekhemkhet at Saqqara (544 x 277 m and 536 x 272 m respectively; see Swelim, Third Dynasty, p. 33).”


The “272 m” width is probably a ‘scribal’ error. According to Lauer, Netjerikhet’s enclosure is 544.8 x 276.85 m (~1040 x ~529 cubits), so perhaps the width of Netjerikhet’s and Sekhemkhet’s enclosures are getting mixed up here.


The stone courses in Sekhemkhet’s enclosure walls are 50 – 52 cm (~1 cubit) high, double the height of the 24 – 26 cm high (~1/2 cubit) courses of Netjerikhet’s walls (Lauer 1961: 15; Goneim 1957: 2).

CT

.... Graham: “I think that not much more analysis is worth doing until the dimensions differences are resolved;

Barone (Goneim) 518 x 183 metres
Tedder (Lauer) 1052 x 360 cubits (551 x 189m)

and whether these are inside or outside measurements with a wall thickness of 6 cubits.”



According to Lauer’s drawing, the inside width of the northern extension is 348 cubits and the outside width, 360 cubits – difference =12 cubits, which means the walls are 6 cubits thick.

A more detailed drawing of the central area in ‘The Pyramids of Egypt’, shows the walls of the northern extension stepped in by ~3.5 cubits, which means the east and west walls of the central area are ~9.5 cubits thick. The overall outside width of the central area is then 367 cubits, but the inside width remains the same as the inside width of the extension (348 cubits).

“the excavator stated that the eastern and western walls, in their northern extensions, were not in direct alignment with the earlier walls, each being stepped in by about 6 feet……” (Edwards 1985 (1947): 63; Fig. 14)


According to Lauer, 1052 x 360 cubits are the overall outside dimensions (~551m x ~189m).

The overall inside dimensions are: 1040 x 348 cubits (~545 x ~182 m), so the largest discrepancy with “Barone (Goneim) 518 x 183 metres” (which appear to be inside dimensions), is in the length: 518m or 545 m. ...


Tedder (Lauer) 1052 x 360 cubits (551 x 189m)

On another board, namely Graham's, Jonny did for me an exhaustive search and study of the data in The Saqqara Ostracon and here is what he had to say:

... So in summary, if you were wanting any hard analysis done, then it was being done with an ellipse. Also, I would conclude that the shape lies on an ellipse of semi-major axis 255.8612 and semi-minor axis of 178.0540 with 99.98% agreement between fit and data, regardless of what other people say. What's more, if that coordinate was meant to be 85 instead of 84 as Dr Trog points out, then the ellipse is one of 256.1136 x 177.9399 with a 99.998 % agreement between fit and data. This makes me think that if we are dealing in whole numbers of units that it is a 256/178 ellipse, which is a/b = 1.4382.

Now I did everything in my power to sway his decision but he was adamant that given the 6 points in question this was the size for a best fit ellipse. He was unwavering in his belief that he had calculated it correctly. Even lobo and Warwick joined in to poke fun at my apparent lack of understanding.

However perhaps I may have the last chuckle in this instance for we have these two "facts" presented to us now.

the step pyramid is in the centre of a 500 x 348 cubit enclosure.

and the best fit for The Saqqara Ostracon as

semi-major axis 255.8612 and semi-minor axis of 178.0540

Step Pyramid enclosure = 500 / 348 = 1.43678161

semi-major axis 255.8612 / semi-minor axis of 178.0540 = 1.43698653

Degree of accuracy this time is:

1.43698653 -
1.43678161
===========
0.00020492

or

99.986


It would now appear that the first part of the construction was drawn to the scale of The Saqqara Ostracon and in fact it also now appears that rather than just the arches here it actually designed the lay out of the first enclosure as well.

Over to you Warwick and lobo and Anthony

smiling smiley

Don Barone

PS: Yes it is true. He who laughs last laughs best. smiling smiley



"There is nothing as impenetrable as a closed mind"
and ..." if everything is a coincidence what is the point of studying or measuring or analyzing anything ?" db
Subject Author Posted

Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 07, 2010 10:07PM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 08, 2010 05:58AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 08, 2010 08:39AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 08, 2010 07:59PM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 09, 2010 08:08AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 08, 2010 08:38AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Warwick L Nixon May 08, 2010 12:10PM

Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Anthony May 09, 2010 07:43AM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 09, 2010 08:36AM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Anthony May 09, 2010 04:43PM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Sirfiroth May 09, 2010 05:11PM

Absolutely wrong.

Anthony May 09, 2010 05:25PM

Re: Absolutely wrong.

Don Barone May 09, 2010 07:05PM

**Moderation note**

Hermione May 10, 2010 11:25AM

Re: Absolutely wrong.

Sirfiroth May 09, 2010 08:17PM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 10, 2010 09:14AM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 10, 2010 11:06AM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Tommi Huhtamaki May 10, 2010 12:31PM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 10, 2010 12:38PM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 10, 2010 01:54PM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 10, 2010 09:33PM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 11, 2010 08:12AM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Anthony May 11, 2010 04:41PM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 10, 2010 09:40PM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 11, 2010 08:00AM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Anthony May 11, 2010 04:43PM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 11, 2010 08:09AM

Re: Assumptions regarding the Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 11, 2010 08:14AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 09, 2010 08:34AM

Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and The Step Pyramid: Are They Related ?

Don Barone May 09, 2010 06:39PM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and The Step Pyramid: Are They Related ?

Don Barone May 10, 2010 11:26AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and The Step Pyramid: Are They Related ?

Don Barone May 10, 2010 11:33AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and The Step Pyramid: Are They Related ?

Don Barone May 10, 2010 11:52AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and The Step Pyramid: Are They Related ?

lobo-hotei May 10, 2010 01:58PM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 15, 2010 06:28AM

Showing that Anthony is in error in his belief that the walls were random: The Beauty of Egyptian Geometry incorporated in The Ancient Egyptian Buildings

Don Barone May 15, 2010 11:35PM

Re: Showing that Anthony is in error in his belief that the walls were random: The Beauty of Egyptian Geometry incorporated in The Ancient Egyptian Buildings

Warwick L Nixon May 16, 2010 12:41PM

Re: Showing that Anthony is in error in his belief that the walls were random: The Beauty of Egyptian Geometry incorporated in The Ancient Egyptian Buildings

Don Barone May 17, 2010 11:34AM

Conspiracy alert!!!!

Warwick L Nixon May 17, 2010 11:48AM

Re: Conspiracy alert!!!!

clem ciamarra May 17, 2010 09:31PM

Re: Conspiracy alert!!!!

Warwick L Nixon May 17, 2010 09:46PM

btw

Warwick L Nixon May 17, 2010 10:05PM

Re: btw

clem ciamarra May 23, 2010 12:25AM

Re: Conspiracy alert!!!!

Hermione May 18, 2010 03:18AM

Re: Showing that Anthony is in error in his belief that the walls were random: The Beauty of Egyptian Geometry incorporated in The Ancient Egyptian Buildings

Hermione May 17, 2010 02:30PM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Byrd May 17, 2010 10:33AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 17, 2010 11:16AM

I'll ask again

Warwick L Nixon May 17, 2010 11:22AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Byrd May 18, 2010 02:07AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 18, 2010 07:06AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Pete Clarke May 18, 2010 07:46AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Warwick L Nixon May 18, 2010 09:36AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Jammer May 18, 2010 10:47AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Byrd May 18, 2010 11:34AM

Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Jammer May 18, 2010 01:00PM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Byrd May 18, 2010 03:15PM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Warwick L Nixon May 18, 2010 01:26PM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 18, 2010 09:41PM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 19, 2010 12:18AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 19, 2010 05:05AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 19, 2010 09:27AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Warwick L Nixon May 19, 2010 09:59AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 19, 2010 10:03AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Warwick L Nixon May 19, 2010 10:14AM

Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Jammer May 19, 2010 10:59AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Warwick L Nixon May 19, 2010 11:07AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 19, 2010 06:09PM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 20, 2010 01:06AM

FYI

lobo-hotei May 19, 2010 09:32AM

It only took a week.....

Warwick L Nixon May 19, 2010 09:54AM

Re: It only took a week.....

Jammer May 19, 2010 11:02AM

Re: It only took a week.....

Warwick L Nixon May 19, 2010 11:10AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 19, 2010 07:14PM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 20, 2010 01:46AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 20, 2010 06:38AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

lobo-hotei May 21, 2010 09:24AM

Brilliant Don B.... not

Jammer May 21, 2010 10:46AM

Re: Brilliant Don B.... not

Don Barone May 21, 2010 10:57AM

Actually, yes.

Jammer May 21, 2010 02:46PM

Re: Actually, yes.

Don Barone May 21, 2010 03:10PM

Re: Actually, yes.

Jammer May 25, 2010 11:33AM

Re: Actually, yes.

Don Barone May 25, 2010 08:41PM

A deep breath for patience

Jammer May 26, 2010 07:50AM

Re: A deep breath for patience

Don Barone May 26, 2010 08:16AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Hermione May 20, 2010 03:50AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 20, 2010 07:05AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 20, 2010 08:18AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

JonnyMcA May 20, 2010 08:44AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Hermione May 20, 2010 09:11AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 20, 2010 09:27AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 20, 2010 11:49AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Jammer May 21, 2010 10:52AM

Re: Pyramid of Sekhemkhet and his enclosure: More out of place measurements

Don Barone May 21, 2010 11:06AM



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