> Well no I disagree that seeing the
> cartouche/shen as a 'magical rope' will lead
> nowhere because that's precisely what it is.

I disagree.

Perhaps you could post some examples from the ED/OK in context?

> The
> AEs drew it as a tied rope. If it designated the
> device used to designate sacred perimeter walls of
> the sun kings palaces, temples and tombs, it
> therefore acted to protect the king who lived
> there, just as the king protected his palaces and
> temples and tombs.

That is quite a leap in logic.. From designate perimeter walls with ropes - to see the ropes as offering protection.
The actual ropes used by the priests designated an area, just as the ropes in the shen/cartouche designated an area.
I have not seen any evidence of the protection part - perhaps in your book?

> After that, the meanings become more complex, and
> include eternity, encircle, protection, royal
> status, the extents of the world, the sun.

So if I understand you correctly - you say that the earliest shen-signs are magic ropes that offer protection, or denotes protection; and the connection with "the world as the Sun defines it" is a later invention?

I find it unfortunate that we often do not make full use of the information we have available. If I, for instance, encounter something that is less than clear in the Pyramid Texts I try to get clarification from the Coffin Texts. If that doesn´t help I continue with the Book of the Dead - and later texts if necessary.
If I finally understand the issue I return to the Pyramid Texts to see if the much later data fits the older context. More often than not it does.

The point being: If the later depictions of the Shen with wings and/or red paint denote "the whole world" then the earlier signs, without wings/paint also denote "the whole world". Unless we can find some indication of a change in understanding.

> I think to understand the symbol we need to
> understand the underlying meanings first before
> appreciating the later more complex senses.

I agree with the underlying meanings part - but what they are is where we disagree..

> What
> makes it more complex is that there is no one
> definition for it, and meanings changed over time.

I haven´t seen any indicator of this change.

> Let me post a definition from Wilkinson (probably
> the best Egyptology writing on symbolism
> currently) who clearly identifies the protective
> aspect:

(Emphasis mine):

> “Being without beginning or end, the circle evokes
> the concept of eternity through its form, and its
> solar aspect is symbolised by the sun disk often
> depicted in the centre of the shen sign. These
> ideas were probably the origin of this hieroglyph
> which is found in words connected with the verbal
> root shenu meaning “encircle,” and which in its
> later elongated form became the cartouche which
> surrounded the Egyptian king’s birth and throne
> names. Perhaps from this particular context the
> shen sign also took on the connotation of
> protection – as the device which excluded all
> inimical elements from the royal name. The shen
> may appear with both of these meanings –
> “eternity” and “protection” – in Egyptian art. As
> a sign in the former, the hieroglyph is frequently
> associated with representations of Heh, the god of
> eternity, and often forms the base of the notched
> palm-branch, symbolising “years,” which is held by
> this deity ……The sign is perhaps most commonly
> associated with the avian form of the falcon god
> Horus and the various vulture goddesses, however.
> These divine birds are frequently depicted holding
> the shen in their claws, hovering above the king
> and guarding him beneath their outstretched wings.
> The shen signs proffered by these avian deities
> may be regarded as symbols of eternity, and
> therefore life, but it is possible that the signs
> also carry the connotation of protection, and this
> double significance would certainly seem to be
> present in many of the small decorative items and
> amulets which use the sign in their design.”

Emphasis = Sun first.

There is another thing we need to address - why are the prenomen and nomen the only names in cartouches?
From a "protective perspective" this is hard to explain - the King only needed partial protection? What about the Horus, Two Ladies and Gold Falcon names?
The "Shen as the whole world" perspective offers a plausible explanation.

> Many thanks for sending the paper. If you include
> your address I will send you a copy of my book
> back FYI.

That is very kind of you - thank you.

Morten