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May 17, 2024, 7:10 am UTC    
March 30, 2009 07:55AM
It was stated here and elsewhere that the textual evidence from historical sources, most notably the Alexandrian Wars by ‘psuedo-Caesar’, demonstrated that Arsinoe must have been over twenty years old, at least 21, when she was put to death, and therefore the skeleton from Ephesus, dated at death to mid or late teens, could not be hers.
In fact, this is not the case at all. The assumption that Arsinoe must have been more than 13 when she escaped from Ceasar’s control in Alexandria (41 B.C), and took command of an Egyptian army, was simply based on the assumption that a girl of less than 13 could not have done this, and that her slightly older brother Ptolemy XIV would have been preferred. In fact, it seems that we do not know what the situation of Ptolemy XIV was at the time, and he may have been elsewhere entirely. Pseudo-Caesar also does not say that Arsinoe took control of all the armies, only the one commanded by Achillas, and pseudo-Caesar also states that she escaped and took command of the army with her governor, Ganymede. It is therefore also possibly that she was slightly younger than 13 than slightly older, and that the assumption that this event formed a terminus ante quem was only based on probabilities, when taking the text in isolation, rather than facts and certainties.
It is possible that she was simply placed as nominal head of the army for political expediency, as her governor and the future general of the army the eunuch Ganymede escaped with her from Alexandria, where her brother Ptolemy XIII was being held by Caesar. The Egyptians were aware that Caesar was to effectively reduce Egypt a province of the Roman Empire, and so they would have been motivated to have an Egyptian royal to legitimise their army. As we can see from the rest of Alexandrian Wars, Arsinoe is rarely mentioned, whereas Ganymede is mentioned often, taking strategic decisions several times, including his involvement with the assassination of Achillas, the previous general of the army, after which Ganymede took control himself. Pseudo-Caesar mentions that Arsinoe is the youngest daughter of Ptolemy XII, but not whether or not she was the youngest child. Therefore we should not automatically assume she was older than the youngest son Ptolemy XIV. The assumption made seems to be that because she was put in charge of the army instead of Ptolemy XIV that she must therefore have been older than him, but this assumption is simply not supported because we don’t know what the situation of Ptolemy XIV was at the time. He may well have been oversees or under duress.
The historian who made this assumption writes ‘therefore’ after his assumption that she could not have been less than 13 years old to have led the army, so we can see that the terminus ante quem must be based on this assumption. After looking again at pseudo-Caesar’s Alexandrian Wars we can see that it is quite possible that Arsinoe was placed nominally in charge of the army under her governor Ganymede at an age younger than 13, and as we can see, later on he assumes charge of the army, and future decisions are described as being his.
Clearly the Egyptians realised that Caesar was only interested in exploiting Egypt, so any method to legitimise an army with a royal from the Ptolomaic line would have been desirable to engender support for the fight against Caesar.
At the time Arsinoe was put in charge of the army, her Brother Ptolemy XIII was in Alexandria where she escaped from, and later we know that he had been incarcerated there by Caesar.
Therefore, in conclusion the historical sources provide support for the theory that Arsinoe’s skeleton has been found at Ephesus, as the age of the deceased at death (48 B.C) was consistent with the range of dates allowed by the facts stated in historical texts, notably Alexandrian Wars. This would mean Arsinoe would have been born in the 50s B.C., and not in the 60s B.C., as had been assumed based on the earlier body of evidence.

[classics.mit.edu]

“Chapter 4

Meanwhile, a division arising between Achillas, who commanded the veteran army, and Arsinoe, the youngest daughter of king Ptolemy, as has been mentioned above, while they mutually endeavored to supplant one another, each striving to engross the supreme authority, Arsinoe, by the assistance of the eunuch Ganymed, her governor, at length prevailed, and slew Achillas. After his death, she possessed the whole power without a rival, and raised Ganymed to the command of the army; who, on his entrance upon that high office, augmented the largesses of the troops, and with equal diligence discharged all other parts of his duty.”

Bennet's geneology of the Ptolemies site:
[www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk]

Anyway, I have had enough of Ma'at for a while again, so will not be commenting further until the paper is given at the conference.

It appears the scholars undertaking this new research think that this IS the skeleton and tomb of Arsinoe, sister of Cleopatra, and if so, it allows us to narrow down the age at which Arsinoe was born and died.

So I am skeptical about these older assumptions being correct.

Dave Lightbody
Archaeologist








The Journal of Ancient Egyptian Architecture JAEA:
[egyptian-architecture.com]
[glasgow.academia.edu]
[egyptology-scotland.squarespace.com]
Dave's Archaeology Homepage:
[arkysite.wordpress.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2009 08:26AM by Dave L.
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Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 15, 2009 06:55PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 15, 2009 09:07PM

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Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

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Khazar-khum March 16, 2009 06:55PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Rich March 17, 2009 12:43AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 01:29PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 02:33PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:34AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 12:55PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 18, 2009 01:33PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 01:44PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 02:22PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 02:39PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 19, 2009 02:00PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 19, 2009 01:59PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Byrd March 17, 2009 04:33PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Anthony March 17, 2009 06:33AM

**Moderation note**

Hermione March 17, 2009 06:56AM

Kanz's 'Arsinoe IV' Examination Abstract from the Programme of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 18, 2009 12:24PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 16, 2009 09:45AM

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Roxana Cooper March 16, 2009 12:05PM

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MJ Thomas 2 March 16, 2009 04:07PM

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Khazar-khum March 16, 2009 04:10PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 16, 2009 04:36PM

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Rick Baudé March 16, 2009 05:06PM

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Greg Reeder March 16, 2009 05:26PM

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Rick Baudé March 16, 2009 05:38PM

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Greg Reeder March 16, 2009 06:17PM

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MJ Thomas 2 March 16, 2009 06:16PM

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Greg Reeder March 16, 2009 06:30PM

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MJ Thomas 2 March 16, 2009 06:33PM

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Khazar-khum March 16, 2009 07:00PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 16, 2009 10:06PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Khazar-khum March 17, 2009 05:41AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 01:42PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Khazar-khum March 17, 2009 07:03PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:38AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 19, 2009 03:59PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Anthony March 17, 2009 06:54AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Pete Clarke March 17, 2009 07:28AM

Off to the Races

Anthony March 17, 2009 07:58AM

Re: Off to the Races

MJ Thomas 2 March 17, 2009 09:39AM

Re: Off to the Races

Warwick L Nixon March 17, 2009 10:14AM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 01:55PM

Re: Off to the Races

MJ Thomas 2 March 17, 2009 03:20PM

Re: Off to the Races

cicely March 17, 2009 03:39PM

Re: Off to the Races

Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 10:05AM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:40AM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 01:53PM

Re: Off to the Races

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 18, 2009 09:38AM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:46AM

Arsinoe IV

Rich March 17, 2009 10:14AM

Re: Off to the Races

Pete Clarke March 17, 2009 10:51AM

Re: Off to the Races

mlpeel March 17, 2009 10:55AM

Re: Off to the Races

Pete Clarke March 17, 2009 12:12PM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 01:57PM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 17, 2009 05:19PM

Re: Off to the Races

Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 05:33PM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 17, 2009 07:02PM

Re: Off to the Races

Khazar-khum March 17, 2009 07:21PM

Re: Off to the Races

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 18, 2009 10:21AM

Re: Off to the Races

Khazar-khum March 18, 2009 07:11PM

Re: Off to the Races

Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 07:47PM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 17, 2009 08:23PM

Re: Off to the Races

Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 10:45PM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 18, 2009 04:40AM

Re: Off to the Races

Pete Clarke March 18, 2009 05:12AM

Re: Off to the Races

Tommi Huhtamaki March 18, 2009 01:49AM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 18, 2009 09:02AM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:56AM

Re: Off to the Races

mlpeel March 18, 2009 11:20AM

Re: Off to the Races

Pistol March 19, 2009 01:27AM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 19, 2009 07:12AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 01:36PM

"Walk Like an Egyptian"

Warwick L Nixon March 17, 2009 01:44PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 02:00PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Warwick L Nixon March 17, 2009 02:13PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 02:59PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

MJ Thomas 2 March 17, 2009 03:39PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 03:44PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Khazar-khum March 17, 2009 07:24PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 11:01AM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:59AM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Greg Reeder March 18, 2009 12:13PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Pete Clarke March 18, 2009 12:17PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Greg Reeder March 18, 2009 12:21PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 01:25PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Greg Reeder March 18, 2009 01:46PM

The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

Martin Stower March 17, 2009 11:36AM

Re: The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 18, 2009 10:42AM

Re: The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 11:17AM

Re: The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

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Re: The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

Martin Stower March 18, 2009 12:27PM

Re: The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

Khazar-khum March 18, 2009 07:18PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 16, 2009 11:44AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

cicely March 16, 2009 12:07PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 16, 2009 01:48PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Lee March 17, 2009 12:27PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 17, 2009 12:36PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 12:55PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 01:10PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 01:16PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 01:25PM

So what.

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 01:11PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 01:32PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Martin Stower March 18, 2009 01:32PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 02:31PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Anthony March 19, 2009 10:07AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Pete Clarke March 19, 2009 12:02PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Hermione March 19, 2009 12:08PM

Dittos

Anthony March 19, 2009 05:22PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Martin Stower March 20, 2009 09:58AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 19, 2009 02:08PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 18, 2009 04:27PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 05:03PM

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Rick Baudé March 18, 2009 05:11PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

bernard March 18, 2009 07:42PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 18, 2009 07:56PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 09:00PM

Wow!

Anthony March 20, 2009 01:08PM

Re: Wow!

Rick Baudé March 20, 2009 02:25PM

Re: Oops!

Anthony March 20, 2009 04:11PM

Re: Oops!

Rick Baudé March 20, 2009 07:10PM

Re: Oops!

Rick Baudé March 21, 2009 04:49PM

Re: Oops!

Warwick L Nixon March 21, 2009 09:39AM

Re: Oops!

Rick Baudé March 21, 2009 10:41AM

Re: Oops!

Roxana Cooper March 21, 2009 10:52AM

Effectively?

Warwick L Nixon March 21, 2009 11:02AM

Re: Effectively?

Roxana Cooper March 21, 2009 01:32PM

**Moderation note**

Hermione March 22, 2009 04:05AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 20, 2009 10:18AM

"Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 23, 2009 10:26AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 23, 2009 07:54PM

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Khazar-khum March 23, 2009 11:31PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Rich March 24, 2009 12:51AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 05:52AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Rich March 24, 2009 08:12AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 24, 2009 08:15AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 08:46AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 24, 2009 12:57PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

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Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Roxana Cooper March 24, 2009 11:42AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 11:52AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 24, 2009 12:36PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 03:25PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Roxana Cooper March 24, 2009 02:29PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 12:18PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 12:46PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 24, 2009 01:14PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 01:23PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Roxana Cooper March 24, 2009 02:37PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Khazar-khum March 24, 2009 03:39PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 04:42PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Khazar-khum March 24, 2009 07:01PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 25, 2009 01:11AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 25, 2009 02:07AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Roxana Cooper March 25, 2009 12:28PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 26, 2009 09:30AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 01:27PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Lee March 24, 2009 01:45PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 04:36PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Roxana Cooper March 25, 2009 12:33PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 01:56PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Martin Stower March 24, 2009 09:37AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 10:40AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Khazar-khum March 24, 2009 03:41PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

MJ Thomas 2 March 24, 2009 04:14PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 06:48PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Khazar-khum March 24, 2009 07:05PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 07:16PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Rick Baudé March 24, 2009 09:27PM

Re: So you expect truth from a TV show?

Rick Baudé March 24, 2009 11:17PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 25, 2009 02:04AM

Re: Not to beat it to death....

Rick Baudé March 30, 2009 02:48PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Rich March 24, 2009 07:19PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 08:02PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Roxana Cooper March 25, 2009 12:40PM

The real face of Cleopatra

Martin Stower March 23, 2009 11:35AM

Cleopatra Docu on BBC iPlayer link:

Dave Lightbody March 25, 2009 06:41AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Lee March 25, 2009 09:16AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 25, 2009 09:28AM

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Hermione March 25, 2009 11:13AM

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Lee March 25, 2009 11:55AM

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Hermione March 25, 2009 12:20PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

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Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 27, 2009 03:34AM

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Roxana Cooper March 27, 2009 11:15AM

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Khazar-khum March 27, 2009 12:53PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 27, 2009 01:02PM

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Roxana Cooper March 28, 2009 11:12AM

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Roxana Cooper March 28, 2009 11:10AM

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Dave Lightbody March 28, 2009 05:10AM

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Roxana Cooper March 28, 2009 11:14AM

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Greg Reeder March 28, 2009 12:16PM

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Roxana Cooper March 29, 2009 10:52AM

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cicely March 29, 2009 06:04PM

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Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 12:05AM

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Roxana Cooper March 31, 2009 09:53AM

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Lee March 31, 2009 10:29AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 11:27AM

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Roxana Cooper March 31, 2009 11:36AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Lee March 31, 2009 01:26PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 12:06PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 30, 2009 07:55AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 30, 2009 11:30AM

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Roxana Cooper March 30, 2009 11:34AM

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Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 31, 2009 02:16AM

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Jammer April 01, 2009 01:08PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Tommi Huhtamaki April 01, 2009 01:47PM

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Jammer April 01, 2009 02:25PM

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Roxana Cooper March 27, 2009 11:11AM

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Roxana Cooper March 25, 2009 12:41PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 26, 2009 09:36AM

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Roxana Cooper March 29, 2009 11:05AM

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Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 12:21AM

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Roxana Cooper March 31, 2009 09:46AM

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Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 11:21AM

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Khazar-khum March 31, 2009 05:51PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 07:52PM

Cleopatra is African.

donald r raab March 31, 2009 10:41PM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

cicely April 01, 2009 08:22AM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

Roxana Cooper April 01, 2009 10:51AM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

Lee April 01, 2009 11:04AM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

Greg Reeder April 01, 2009 11:51AM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

Lee April 01, 2009 12:54PM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

cicely April 01, 2009 11:38AM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

Roxana Cooper April 01, 2009 10:48AM



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