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May 17, 2024, 3:01 am UTC    
March 18, 2009 01:49AM
Quote:Indeed, there is no biological or genetic
> foundation for the grouping of individual humans
> into a racial group. Instead, humans themselves
> choose (consciously or unconsciously) which
> physical characteristics constitute a racial
> group. Consequently, racial groups are presently
> thought to be social constructions, or a category
> created not by biological nature but by human
> invention. However, from its origins in the early
> modern era until the twentieth century, race was
> not considered a social construction but a real,
> biological distinction transmitted from one
> generation to the next. Thus, racial identity was
> thought to be something fixed and imposed
> genetically.From here:


A couple of quotes from Out of Eden, by Stephen Oppenheimer:

Quote

A question which has obsessed journalists and film-makers ever since Newsweek's 1988 Mitochondrial Eve story is what she and her companions looked like. It is likely that they all looked very different from one another, more varied than any random selection of people from any non-African country might look today. They were, after all, the stock from which all non-Africans developed, and all the evidence suggests that the variation within individual groups decreases the farther away from Africa one goes, even today. Yet, it is also the case that differences between one group and another, say, Chinese, Native Americans, Polynesians, Melanesians, and Australians, increase the farther we move from Africa; so the total diversity between the so-called races might seem to increase with distance from Africa. Let me put this another way. My late and very dear mother-in-law, who was Chinese, once told me - and wasn't joking - that all Europeans looked the same to her. Europeans have said the same about the Chinese. There is a paradox here, which we need to resolve before we can continue to chart the genetic diaspora out of Africa.

It is all a question of how the diversity is split up. What appears to be a paradox is actually the result of multiple unequal group splits followed by genetic drift in action. It can be explained thus: as the explorers split into more and more branches, the original genetic variation was parcelled into different groups which today live scattered around Eurasia and America. Over the past 50,000 years or so, members of these individual splinter groups in the ex-African diaspora have become more like another than like members of other groups. The splinter groups have diverged from one another. While I shall argue that many of these changes were true evolutionary adaptations to new environments, some of them were just down to the random and unequal way the cake was cut.

Page 172.

Quote

A by-product of the fight agains racism has been to render discussion of race taboo. Even the word 'race' itself, tainted forever by the Nazi era, is outlawed by many anthropologists as unscientific, derogatory, meaningless, and giving the misleading impression that races are discrete entities when in fact variation, gradation, and admixture occur everywhere. This is all very worthy, but the fact remains - as children are quick to notice - that people from different regions can look dramatically different from one another. In the end, prosciption and regularly changing euphemisms do not help; most alternative terms for race such as 'population' or 'ethnic group' are so vague as to be just as misleading.

Pages 196-7.



Regards,
Tommi

"In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!"
-Homer J. Simpson
Subject Author Posted

Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 15, 2009 06:55PM

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Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 15, 2009 09:07PM

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Khazar-khum March 16, 2009 06:55PM

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Rich March 17, 2009 12:43AM

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Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 02:33PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:34AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 12:55PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 18, 2009 01:33PM

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Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 01:44PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 02:22PM

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Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 19, 2009 02:00PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 19, 2009 01:59PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Byrd March 17, 2009 04:33PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Anthony March 17, 2009 06:33AM

**Moderation note**

Hermione March 17, 2009 06:56AM

Kanz's 'Arsinoe IV' Examination Abstract from the Programme of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 18, 2009 12:24PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

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MJ Thomas 2 March 16, 2009 04:07PM

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Greg Reeder March 16, 2009 04:36PM

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Greg Reeder March 16, 2009 05:26PM

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Rick Baudé March 16, 2009 05:38PM

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Greg Reeder March 16, 2009 06:17PM

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MJ Thomas 2 March 16, 2009 06:16PM

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Greg Reeder March 16, 2009 06:30PM

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Khazar-khum March 16, 2009 07:00PM

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Greg Reeder March 16, 2009 10:06PM

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Khazar-khum March 17, 2009 05:41AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 01:42PM

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Khazar-khum March 17, 2009 07:03PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:38AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 19, 2009 03:59PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Anthony March 17, 2009 06:54AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Pete Clarke March 17, 2009 07:28AM

Off to the Races

Anthony March 17, 2009 07:58AM

Re: Off to the Races

MJ Thomas 2 March 17, 2009 09:39AM

Re: Off to the Races

Warwick L Nixon March 17, 2009 10:14AM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 01:55PM

Re: Off to the Races

MJ Thomas 2 March 17, 2009 03:20PM

Re: Off to the Races

cicely March 17, 2009 03:39PM

Re: Off to the Races

Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 10:05AM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:40AM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 01:53PM

Re: Off to the Races

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 18, 2009 09:38AM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:46AM

Arsinoe IV

Rich March 17, 2009 10:14AM

Re: Off to the Races

Pete Clarke March 17, 2009 10:51AM

Re: Off to the Races

mlpeel March 17, 2009 10:55AM

Re: Off to the Races

Pete Clarke March 17, 2009 12:12PM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 01:57PM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 17, 2009 05:19PM

Re: Off to the Races

Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 05:33PM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 17, 2009 07:02PM

Re: Off to the Races

Khazar-khum March 17, 2009 07:21PM

Re: Off to the Races

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 18, 2009 10:21AM

Re: Off to the Races

Khazar-khum March 18, 2009 07:11PM

Re: Off to the Races

Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 07:47PM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 17, 2009 08:23PM

Re: Off to the Races

Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 10:45PM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 18, 2009 04:40AM

Re: Off to the Races

Pete Clarke March 18, 2009 05:12AM

Re: Off to the Races

Tommi Huhtamaki March 18, 2009 01:49AM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 18, 2009 09:02AM

Re: Off to the Races

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:56AM

Re: Off to the Races

mlpeel March 18, 2009 11:20AM

Re: Off to the Races

Pistol March 19, 2009 01:27AM

Re: Off to the Races

Anthony March 19, 2009 07:12AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 01:36PM

"Walk Like an Egyptian"

Warwick L Nixon March 17, 2009 01:44PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Roxana Cooper March 17, 2009 02:00PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Warwick L Nixon March 17, 2009 02:13PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 02:59PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

MJ Thomas 2 March 17, 2009 03:39PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Greg Reeder March 17, 2009 03:44PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Khazar-khum March 17, 2009 07:24PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 11:01AM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 10:59AM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Greg Reeder March 18, 2009 12:13PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Pete Clarke March 18, 2009 12:17PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Greg Reeder March 18, 2009 12:21PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 01:25PM

Re: "Walk Like an Egyptian"

Greg Reeder March 18, 2009 01:46PM

The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

Martin Stower March 17, 2009 11:36AM

Re: The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 18, 2009 10:42AM

Re: The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 11:17AM

Re: The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

Greg Reeder March 18, 2009 12:16PM

Re: The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

Martin Stower March 18, 2009 12:27PM

Re: The real face of Arsinöe (yawn)

Khazar-khum March 18, 2009 07:18PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 16, 2009 11:44AM

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cicely March 16, 2009 12:07PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 16, 2009 01:48PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Lee March 17, 2009 12:27PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 17, 2009 12:36PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 12:55PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 01:10PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 01:16PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 01:25PM

So what.

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 01:11PM

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Roxana Cooper March 18, 2009 01:32PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Martin Stower March 18, 2009 01:32PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 02:31PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Anthony March 19, 2009 10:07AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Pete Clarke March 19, 2009 12:02PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Hermione March 19, 2009 12:08PM

Dittos

Anthony March 19, 2009 05:22PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Martin Stower March 20, 2009 09:58AM

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Roxana Cooper March 19, 2009 02:08PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 18, 2009 04:27PM

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Warwick L Nixon March 18, 2009 05:03PM

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Rick Baudé March 18, 2009 05:11PM

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bernard March 18, 2009 07:42PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 18, 2009 07:56PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Dave Lightbody March 18, 2009 09:00PM

Wow!

Anthony March 20, 2009 01:08PM

Re: Wow!

Rick Baudé March 20, 2009 02:25PM

Re: Oops!

Anthony March 20, 2009 04:11PM

Re: Oops!

Rick Baudé March 20, 2009 07:10PM

Re: Oops!

Rick Baudé March 21, 2009 04:49PM

Re: Oops!

Warwick L Nixon March 21, 2009 09:39AM

Re: Oops!

Rick Baudé March 21, 2009 10:41AM

Re: Oops!

Roxana Cooper March 21, 2009 10:52AM

Effectively?

Warwick L Nixon March 21, 2009 11:02AM

Re: Effectively?

Roxana Cooper March 21, 2009 01:32PM

**Moderation note**

Hermione March 22, 2009 04:05AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 20, 2009 10:18AM

"Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 23, 2009 10:26AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 23, 2009 07:54PM

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Khazar-khum March 23, 2009 11:31PM

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Rich March 24, 2009 12:51AM

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Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 05:52AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Rich March 24, 2009 08:12AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 24, 2009 08:15AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 08:46AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 24, 2009 12:57PM

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Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 11:35AM

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Roxana Cooper March 24, 2009 11:42AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 11:52AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 24, 2009 12:36PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 03:25PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Roxana Cooper March 24, 2009 02:29PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 12:18PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 12:46PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 24, 2009 01:14PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 01:23PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Roxana Cooper March 24, 2009 02:37PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Khazar-khum March 24, 2009 03:39PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 04:42PM

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Khazar-khum March 24, 2009 07:01PM

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Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 25, 2009 01:11AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 25, 2009 02:07AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Roxana Cooper March 25, 2009 12:28PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 26, 2009 09:30AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 01:27PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Lee March 24, 2009 01:45PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 04:36PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Roxana Cooper March 25, 2009 12:33PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 01:56PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Martin Stower March 24, 2009 09:37AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Hermione March 24, 2009 10:40AM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Khazar-khum March 24, 2009 03:41PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

MJ Thomas 2 March 24, 2009 04:14PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 06:48PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Khazar-khum March 24, 2009 07:05PM

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Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 07:16PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Rick Baudé March 24, 2009 09:27PM

Re: So you expect truth from a TV show?

Rick Baudé March 24, 2009 11:17PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 25, 2009 02:04AM

Re: Not to beat it to death....

Rick Baudé March 30, 2009 02:48PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Rich March 24, 2009 07:19PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Dave Lightbody March 24, 2009 08:02PM

Re: "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer": BBC1, 9pm, tonight (23.3.09)

Roxana Cooper March 25, 2009 12:40PM

The real face of Cleopatra

Martin Stower March 23, 2009 11:35AM

Cleopatra Docu on BBC iPlayer link:

Dave Lightbody March 25, 2009 06:41AM

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Lee March 25, 2009 09:16AM

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Hermione March 25, 2009 11:13AM

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Lee March 25, 2009 11:55AM

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Khazar-khum March 27, 2009 12:53PM

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Warwick L Nixon March 27, 2009 01:02PM

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Greg Reeder March 28, 2009 12:16PM

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Roxana Cooper March 29, 2009 10:52AM

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cicely March 29, 2009 06:04PM

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Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 12:05AM

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Lee March 31, 2009 10:29AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 11:27AM

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Roxana Cooper March 31, 2009 11:36AM

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Lee March 31, 2009 01:26PM

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Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 12:06PM

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Dave Lightbody March 30, 2009 07:55AM

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Dave Lightbody March 30, 2009 11:30AM

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Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 31, 2009 02:16AM

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Jammer April 01, 2009 01:08PM

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Tommi Huhtamaki April 01, 2009 01:47PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Jammer April 01, 2009 02:25PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 27, 2009 11:11AM

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Roxana Cooper March 25, 2009 12:41PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg March 26, 2009 09:36AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Roxana Cooper March 29, 2009 11:05AM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 12:21AM

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Roxana Cooper March 31, 2009 09:46AM

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Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 11:21AM

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Khazar-khum March 31, 2009 05:51PM

Re: Cleopatra of African descent new scientific study says:

Greg Reeder March 31, 2009 07:52PM

Cleopatra is African.

donald r raab March 31, 2009 10:41PM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

cicely April 01, 2009 08:22AM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

Roxana Cooper April 01, 2009 10:51AM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

Lee April 01, 2009 11:04AM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

Greg Reeder April 01, 2009 11:51AM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

Lee April 01, 2009 12:54PM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

cicely April 01, 2009 11:38AM

Re: Cleopatra is African.

Roxana Cooper April 01, 2009 10:48AM



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