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May 5, 2024, 5:00 pm UTC    
April 19, 2005 12:38PM
Alex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Bernard,
>
> Many thanks for the feedback. I can see that in
> some respects I've been trying to run before I can
> walk .
>
> You write: "The modern synthesis is as firmly
> established as any scientific theory we have."
>
> This is the thing, though. How Evolution works is,
> as yourself and others admit, a theory; it is not
> an established scientific fact.
> The same thing is found in Cosmology. Theory
> heaped upon theory but little in the way of hard
> core scientific fact.
> And, like it or not, to all intents and purposes a
> theory is a belief.

Two points (at least)1) evolution- "change over time of a population" is a fact and 2) a scientific theory is not just a "belief" --from a previous post:
Milton A. Rothman, The Science Gap. Dispelling the Myths and Understanding the Reality of Science. Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Books, 1992.

p. 61 [theory] “In popular usage, a theory is little more than a hypothesis or a guess. But to a scientist a theory is an elaborate structure of observation, hypothesis, general principles, deductions, mathematical analysis, and experimental verification. To a physicist, the term ‘kinetic theory’ represents a system for calculating the properties of gases starting with the equations of motion of the gas molecules. There is no guesswork involved. To a physicist, the term ‘quantum theory’ represents a set of equations from which the properties and behavior of all particles, atoms, molecules, and radiation can be calculated. This theory is the most thoroughly verified system of knowledge in history. At this state of the game there is no doubt that the theory, though incomplete does work. Chemists can now use quantum theory to calculate the structure of reasonably complex molecules as well as the results of chemical reactions, starting from basic principles and working up from the bottom.”

p. 106 “Theories, being human descriptions of reality, can change as better observations are explained by more detailed theories. But, as we have seen above, newer and future theories cannot contradict the observations that have already been made, unless those observations are grossly in error. No laws of motion can ignore the fact that the speed of light is a constant. It is impossible for a future theory of gravitation to show that objects repel each other by a gravitational force--unless that repulsion is so weak that it has never been observed.”

Cathleen Loving. 1997. “From the Summit of Truth to Its Slippery Slopes: Science Education’s Journey Through Positivist-Postmodern Territory,” American Educational Research Journal 34: 421-452.

p. 427. ‘Theories in science consist of a closely related system of statements, whether they be accepted laws, propositions, assumptions, or rules of procedure that together serve to predict, analyze, and explain phenomena in nature. (Terms like fruitful, rigorous, core, center, fringe are often used to describe a theory’s usefulness, stability, or general acceptance.) Plate tectonic theory, evolutionary theory, quantum theory are examples of contemporary, highly complex systems of explanation, prediction, and analysis.

Thus, the theory of evolution is as secure and warranted as any of these other scientific theories. When scientists try to speak accurately, they avoid the words “proven” “truth” etc. What we can say is that the current theory of evolution (the so-called synthetic theory of evolution) which was set forth in 1937 by Theodosius Dobzhansky.is as “proven” as any other scientific theory. The synthetic theory reflects the advances in scientific knowledge and method since Darwin. The most important are the addition of the Mendelian laws concerning heredity; that heredity is determined by specific genes located on chromosomes; the methodology of using mathematics of population dynamics and the use of precise quantitative experiments

The theory of evolution continues to be refined as new knowledge accumulates BUT, as Rothman pointed out above, new observations (such as the existence of DNA, the genetic code, etc.) have not contradicted or refuted any of the basic postulates of the theory of evolution.
Bernard
>
> I realise that many here will hold their hands up
> in horror and accuse me of being willfully
> ignorant.
> That's okay because I know that that is not true
> of me. I am not as well-formally-educated as many
> here, and my sense of Logic is, I admit, sadly
> lacking, but I do know a 'con' when I see one.
>
> Regards,
>
> Alex


Subject Author Posted

Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Sue April 16, 2005 03:06PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 16, 2005 04:03PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 16, 2005 05:23PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 16, 2005 05:21PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 16, 2005 05:54PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 16, 2005 07:40PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 16, 2005 07:57PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Lee April 17, 2005 08:16AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 12:51PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 16, 2005 08:13PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 01:10PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 17, 2005 01:37PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 17, 2005 02:15PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 04:25PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 17, 2005 07:17PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 09:02AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 17, 2005 03:00AM

Clarification of intended meaning

Stephen Tonkin April 17, 2005 04:44AM

Not so revealing....

Joanne April 17, 2005 09:19AM

Re: Not so revealing....

Dave L April 17, 2005 09:53AM

Re: Not so revealing....

Sue April 17, 2005 10:46AM

Re: Not so revealing....

Dave L April 17, 2005 11:09AM

Can i just ask....

darkuser April 17, 2005 12:56PM

Re: Can i just ask....

Dave L April 17, 2005 01:56PM

Re: Can i just ask....

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 03:47PM

Re: Can i just ask....

cicely April 17, 2005 08:26PM

Re: Can i just ask....

Joanne April 18, 2005 08:47AM

Re: Not so revealing....

Joanne April 17, 2005 12:19PM

Re: Not so revealing....

bernard April 17, 2005 03:55PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 01:47PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 18, 2005 12:40AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 06:24AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Sue April 18, 2005 07:00AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 08:56AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Sue April 18, 2005 09:48AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 06:48PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Pete Clarke April 18, 2005 07:46AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 08:30AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 18, 2005 09:01AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 18, 2005 10:53AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Pete Clarke April 18, 2005 10:53AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 18, 2005 01:22PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 05:11PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 18, 2005 08:28PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 01:43AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 06:07AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 19, 2005 06:48AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 07:02AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Pete Clarke April 19, 2005 07:27AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

John Wall April 19, 2005 07:52AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 07:57AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

John Wall April 19, 2005 08:11AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 08:20AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 08:49AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

John Wall April 19, 2005 08:51AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 09:28AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 08:28AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 08:27AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 08:34AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

cicely April 19, 2005 08:43AM

Cicely and Merc

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:05AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 09:13AM

Yes....exactly, N/T

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:21AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

cicely April 19, 2005 09:14AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:20AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 09:22AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:27AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

cicely April 19, 2005 09:26AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:28AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

cicely April 19, 2005 09:30AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:37AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 09:32AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

lobo-hotei April 19, 2005 11:22AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 09:22AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 09:23AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 09:27AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 08:51AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Pete Clarke April 19, 2005 08:48AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:09AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 09:11AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:15AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Herur April 19, 2005 08:38AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 19, 2005 04:12PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Herur April 20, 2005 02:18AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 08:18AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 08:47AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 08:53AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 09:51AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 19, 2005 04:22PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 19, 2005 11:18AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 19, 2005 04:17PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 06:11PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 19, 2005 06:35PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 19, 2005 08:27AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 09:55AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 19, 2005 01:00PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 03:12PM

you know what....?

darkuser April 19, 2005 11:02AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 19, 2005 11:34AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 18, 2005 01:45PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 03:59PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 18, 2005 05:01PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 06:36PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 18, 2005 07:40AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 07:56AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 08:44AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 10:09AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 19, 2005 11:02AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Tommi Huhtamaki April 19, 2005 11:30AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 19, 2005 12:54PM

Thanks! (n/t)

Tommi Huhtamaki April 19, 2005 01:12PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 01:42PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 18, 2005 08:54AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 18, 2005 01:12AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 03:57PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 17, 2005 09:13AM

Moderation Note to Thread

Katherine Reece April 17, 2005 12:23PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 01:12PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Mercury Rapids April 18, 2005 04:40AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Simon April 17, 2005 03:55PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 17, 2005 05:30PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 10:22PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 17, 2005 11:17PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 11:26PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 17, 2005 11:31PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 11:46PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 18, 2005 01:50PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Simon April 18, 2005 07:32AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 18, 2005 01:09PM

I'd prefer to read Dawkins than biology by a creationist smiling smiley

Simon April 18, 2005 03:47PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 17, 2005 07:10PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 17, 2005 08:05PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 10:09PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 17, 2005 10:19PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 10:29PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 17, 2005 10:43PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 10:58PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 10:50PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Simon April 18, 2005 09:51AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 18, 2005 10:02AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Simon April 18, 2005 10:17AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 18, 2005 01:42PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Simon April 18, 2005 02:41PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 19, 2005 08:43AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Pete Clarke April 18, 2005 02:54AM

Moderation Note

Mercury Rapids April 18, 2005 04:42AM

It looks like this thread has run its course...

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 10:40AM

Re: It looks like this thread has run its course...

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 10:47AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 11:45AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 19, 2005 12:38PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 12:52PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 19, 2005 01:00PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 03:16PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 19, 2005 06:00PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 07:25PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 03:43PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 19, 2005 09:16PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 19, 2005 04:55PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 07:30PM

This thread is now closed

Mercury Rapids April 20, 2005 05:00AM



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