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May 5, 2024, 11:15 am UTC    
April 19, 2005 11:02AM
Alex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello DaveL,
>
> I think of these logical arguments and facts about
> Evolution as matters of personal belief because
> they seem to be constantly changing.
> What's true one day is false the next.
> Today it's this theory, tomorrow it will be
> something different.

This is just not true. The modern synthesis is as firmly established as any scientific theory we have. (Remember that in science "theory" does not have the common meaning of hypothesis or guess. It means a set of interrelated facts that have survived extensive attempts to disprove them, i,e the theory of gravity, the theory of plate tectonics, etc.). The vast majority of scientists agree that evolution has taken place by natural selection, i.e. that environmental changes make some organisms better able to reproduce and that over time these traits and adaptations have produced new species. That all living things have a common descent and that the mechanism for this is transmission through the genes via the information coded in the DNA. The code for the DNA is the same for all living things.
The discussions you see in the literature and that Simon keeps posting from New Scientist concern the fine points and extensions and revisions of the basic common understanding. "Scientific creationists" keep trying to argue that there are severe disagreements between evolutionists- but that is not true. Gould and Dawkins disagreed on the importance of "punctuated equilibrium" but both agree on the basics I outlined above. Gould has written on the topic of attempts to try to create a breech where there is none (I can get you a quote if necessary).

> Dawkins (for example) says one thing, another
> expert in the same field says he's wrong. Whom is
> one to believe?

See above. I keep talking about "textbook science" areas of science where everyone agrees and things are pretty settled--- like the basics I pointed out. and "frontier science" where ther is active research going on and different competing scientific ideas with no clear compelling winner. Here the layperson needs to take a pill and relax. Eventually "textbook science" will come out of the dispute, but it can be fun to try to understand what the different claims are. For example, thereare a lot of cosmological ideas that are still "frontier science"-- dark matter, string theory, the many worlds interpretation, dark matter, exactly what black holes are, what came before the "big Bang-- this is more philosophy than science IMHO.
Many of these areas can only be understood if you follow some vey heavy math and the layperson cannot fully understand them. This creates some problems when the scientists use metaphors and analogies to try to make these ideas comprehensible, because the metaphors can be misleading.

>
> Of course, I'm generalising and it is an
> unscientific thing to do but, then, I'm not a
> scientist - I'm just an ordinary layman trying to
> make sense of a subject that nobody, IMHuO, fully
> understands.
> The science of Evolution is itself evolving, and
> it is very hard for novices like me to keep up
> with the constant changes.*

Again, what you need to know and understand is the "textbook science" component of evolution which the overwhelming majority of scientists agree on and don't get concerned with 1) news reports which try to hype a particular claim as a "big deal" and 2) claims by "creations scientists" who want to muddy the water in order to further their antiscientific agenda.
Bernard


>
> Regards,
>
> Alex
>
> *I'm referring to the mechanics and processes of
> Evolution


Subject Author Posted

Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Sue April 16, 2005 03:06PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 16, 2005 04:03PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 16, 2005 05:23PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 16, 2005 05:21PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 16, 2005 05:54PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 16, 2005 07:40PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 16, 2005 07:57PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Lee April 17, 2005 08:16AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 12:51PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 16, 2005 08:13PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 01:10PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 17, 2005 01:37PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 17, 2005 02:15PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 04:25PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 17, 2005 07:17PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 09:02AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 17, 2005 03:00AM

Clarification of intended meaning

Stephen Tonkin April 17, 2005 04:44AM

Not so revealing....

Joanne April 17, 2005 09:19AM

Re: Not so revealing....

Dave L April 17, 2005 09:53AM

Re: Not so revealing....

Sue April 17, 2005 10:46AM

Re: Not so revealing....

Dave L April 17, 2005 11:09AM

Can i just ask....

darkuser April 17, 2005 12:56PM

Re: Can i just ask....

Dave L April 17, 2005 01:56PM

Re: Can i just ask....

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 03:47PM

Re: Can i just ask....

cicely April 17, 2005 08:26PM

Re: Can i just ask....

Joanne April 18, 2005 08:47AM

Re: Not so revealing....

Joanne April 17, 2005 12:19PM

Re: Not so revealing....

bernard April 17, 2005 03:55PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 01:47PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 18, 2005 12:40AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 06:24AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Sue April 18, 2005 07:00AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 08:56AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Sue April 18, 2005 09:48AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 06:48PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Pete Clarke April 18, 2005 07:46AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 08:30AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 18, 2005 09:01AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 18, 2005 10:53AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Pete Clarke April 18, 2005 10:53AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 18, 2005 01:22PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 05:11PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 18, 2005 08:28PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 01:43AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 06:07AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 19, 2005 06:48AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 07:02AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Pete Clarke April 19, 2005 07:27AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

John Wall April 19, 2005 07:52AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 07:57AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

John Wall April 19, 2005 08:11AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 08:20AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 08:49AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

John Wall April 19, 2005 08:51AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 09:28AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 08:28AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 08:27AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 08:34AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

cicely April 19, 2005 08:43AM

Cicely and Merc

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:05AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 09:13AM

Yes....exactly, N/T

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:21AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

cicely April 19, 2005 09:14AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:20AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 09:22AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:27AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

cicely April 19, 2005 09:26AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:28AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

cicely April 19, 2005 09:30AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:37AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 09:32AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

lobo-hotei April 19, 2005 11:22AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 09:22AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 09:23AM

Re: Cicely and Merc

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 09:27AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 08:51AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Pete Clarke April 19, 2005 08:48AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:09AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 09:11AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 19, 2005 09:15AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Herur April 19, 2005 08:38AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 19, 2005 04:12PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Herur April 20, 2005 02:18AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 08:18AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 08:47AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 08:53AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 09:51AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 19, 2005 04:22PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 19, 2005 11:18AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 19, 2005 04:17PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 06:11PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 19, 2005 06:35PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 19, 2005 08:27AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 09:55AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 19, 2005 01:00PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 03:12PM

you know what....?

darkuser April 19, 2005 11:02AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 19, 2005 11:34AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 18, 2005 01:45PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 03:59PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Stephen Tonkin April 18, 2005 05:01PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 06:36PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 18, 2005 07:40AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 07:56AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 08:44AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 10:09AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 19, 2005 11:02AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Tommi Huhtamaki April 19, 2005 11:30AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 19, 2005 12:54PM

Thanks! (n/t)

Tommi Huhtamaki April 19, 2005 01:12PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 19, 2005 01:42PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 18, 2005 08:54AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 18, 2005 01:12AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 17, 2005 03:57PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 17, 2005 09:13AM

Moderation Note to Thread

Katherine Reece April 17, 2005 12:23PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 01:12PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Mercury Rapids April 18, 2005 04:40AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Simon April 17, 2005 03:55PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 17, 2005 05:30PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 10:22PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 17, 2005 11:17PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 11:26PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 17, 2005 11:31PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 11:46PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 18, 2005 01:50PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Simon April 18, 2005 07:32AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 18, 2005 01:09PM

I'd prefer to read Dawkins than biology by a creationist smiling smiley

Simon April 18, 2005 03:47PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Dave L April 17, 2005 07:10PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 17, 2005 08:05PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 10:09PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 17, 2005 10:19PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 10:29PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 17, 2005 10:43PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 10:58PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

wirelessguru1 April 17, 2005 10:50PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Simon April 18, 2005 09:51AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 18, 2005 10:02AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Simon April 18, 2005 10:17AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 18, 2005 01:42PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Simon April 18, 2005 02:41PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Joanne April 19, 2005 08:43AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Pete Clarke April 18, 2005 02:54AM

Moderation Note

Mercury Rapids April 18, 2005 04:42AM

It looks like this thread has run its course...

Mercury Rapids April 19, 2005 10:40AM

Re: It looks like this thread has run its course...

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 10:47AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 11:45AM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 19, 2005 12:38PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 12:52PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 19, 2005 01:00PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 03:16PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 19, 2005 06:00PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 07:25PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 03:43PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

bernard April 19, 2005 09:16PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

darkuser April 19, 2005 04:55PM

Re: Scientists refuse to debate evolution vs. ID

Anonymous User April 19, 2005 07:30PM

This thread is now closed

Mercury Rapids April 20, 2005 05:00AM



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