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May 22, 2024, 5:05 am UTC    
October 04, 2001 12:44PM
<HTML>Group hug: I'm in.

Throwing in the towel: If I get stumped I'll admit it. With science it's normal for there to be more questions than answers and that doesn't make a theory wrong. I've given you my summary of the powerful way the theory solves so many sticky issues all in one swoop -- and don't forget that guys with the microscopes and a whole career under their belts came out and said that pyramid rock they tested is unnatural. Don't forget about the chemically bound water in the masonry -- I don't think I'll be throwing in the towel on the theory itself because I've got a good handle on the important data. Other evidence can be less cut and dried.

Lost tech: Anthony wants to know how the technology got lost. According to the pro geopolymersists, Klemm studied 6th dynasty mortar and found no lime -- older mortar shows lime. This can mean that the AEs were running out of lime which they could only get from burning trees and from certain types of earth present in Africa, etc. Their sources were finite.

So by the end of the 4th D. the size of the pyramids suddenly shrink dramatically -- the 3rd Pyramid at Giza is so much smaller and the next ones made over the years are smaller still and less well built (the cut theory has no explanation for why pyramid sizes shrank because the 5th D. was prosperous -- but the size decrease is no problem for the geopolymer theory).

When the Old Kingdom comes to a close there's a period of social instability. Then later the Hyksos take over in the north. The guys in the south hate the Hyksos up north. Eventually the southerners conspire and have acquired the Hyksos chariot technology and swords and they fight the Hyksos and drive them out of Egypt. The new capital is established in the south -- a sandstone region and by now bronze is common and great for cutting soft sandstone.

No funds are dedicated by the new admin. to restoring the north. The pyramids are stripped to some degree (some blocks were used for making 5th D. and later pyramids and monuments at Giza, etc., had probably been invaded by the Hyksos when they were in power. They would grab treasure and the pyramids would not be sacred to the Hyksos. They maybe left lots of tool marks from prying at blocks to find the entrances and such).

Anyway, the old technology is being forgotten -- people in the south don't like the northern much because they allowed the Hyksos to get control there and maybe there's mixed blood. Theban kings want to glorify their new capital and forget about rebuilding the north.

All that changes in the 19th Dynasty and the pyramids are repaired with we don't know what -- maybe cut stone -- Frank can try to use any he finds against the theory if he finds some he can prove is natural rock.

Northerners probably still have the old knowledge for making rocks and not so much lime is needed for a 1000 ton statue here and there. It's possible some old scrolls in Egyptian libraries were discovered that document formulas-- but there's no telling.

But the kings are in the south and there's not so much need for concrete there because sandstone is so easy to cut.

It's too hard to say when rockmaking all died out exactly. Morris talks about the statue of Serapis in Ptolemaic times -- made with the funeral remains of the Apis (collagen from bones and natron etc. can be used to make synthetic zeolite). It's impossible to say when the technology died without looking at all kinds of objects in museums in cooperation with curators (fat chance!). Think about when Christianity abolished paganism in Egypt -- with that bloody slaughter of priests holding out in the Serapeum -- that could have caused the technology to die out as far as the Egyptian priesthood is concerned.

Even though the question will be open until later objects are studied, at least you can get an idea of how technology can die out when there are social changes and upheavals and finite resources. Today the same thing happens but at a faster pace. Most people can't use a plough today. Tomorrow when we've run out of oil new forms of energies will replace oil -- and nobody will think about making a simple oil lamp.

Anthony wants to know why there are no writings. One problem is that all translations were made by people who assumed that the stones are all cut. Unless the geopolymerists become expert translators or work with such scholars (fat chance!) we'll not know what old manuscripts really say. Some are quite rare and unpublished.

This old writings issue is a really complex ball of wax because sometimes old words have no equivalent in modern languages. Davidovits and Morris devote some discussion -- very fascinating -- in their writings. You'll have to read their books for this kind of info because it's complex and not right for debate here.

Sandy</HTML>
Subject Author Posted

Attn: Katherine and Mr. Brass

Sandy J. Perkins October 03, 2001 11:59PM

Re: Attn: Katherine and Mr. Brass

Katherine October 04, 2001 12:14AM

Re: Attn: Katherine and Mr. Brass

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 02:15AM

Re: Attn: Katherine and Mr. Brass

Mikey Brass October 04, 2001 02:21AM

Re: Attn: Mr. Brass

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 03:19AM

Re: Attn: Mr. Brass

Mikey Brass October 04, 2001 03:25AM

Re: Attn: Mr. Brass

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 04:03AM

Re: Attn: Mr. Brass

Mikey Brass October 04, 2001 04:22AM

Attn: Mr. Brass

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 05:00AM

Attn: Mr. Brass

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 05:00AM

Re: Attn: Mr. Brass

Mikey Brass October 04, 2001 06:37AM

Attn: Mr. Brass

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 05:00AM

Re: Attn: Mr. Brass

Claire October 04, 2001 04:26AM

Claire

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 05:15AM

Re: Claire

Claire October 04, 2001 05:26AM

Misinformation

Sandy October 04, 2001 07:35AM

Re: Misinformation

Claire October 04, 2001 08:07AM

Re: Misinformation

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 08:21AM

Just quickly

Claire October 04, 2001 08:51AM

Re: Just quickly

Anthony October 04, 2001 09:52AM

Quicker

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 10:28AM

Quicker

Claire October 04, 2001 11:02AM

ENOUGH!!!!

Anthony October 04, 2001 07:56AM

Enough.....

Katherine Reece October 04, 2001 08:20AM

Re: Enough.....

Anthony October 04, 2001 08:23AM

Chin Up Anthony

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 10:23AM

It's Okay Anthony

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 10:05AM

Hooray!

Katherine Reece October 04, 2001 10:22AM

Group Hug, everybody...

Anthony October 04, 2001 10:51AM

Group Hug, I'm In.

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 12:44PM

Whoa...Sandy!

Anthony October 04, 2001 01:07PM

New Try

Sandy J. Perkins October 04, 2001 01:53PM

Re: New Try

al-Urman October 04, 2001 02:39PM

Newer Pyramids

Anthony October 04, 2001 04:19PM

Re: It's Okay Anthony

Chris Dunn October 04, 2001 08:36PM

Re: It's Okay Anthony

Don Holeman October 04, 2001 09:25PM

Flat Surfaces

Sandy J. Perkins October 05, 2001 04:41AM

Re: Flat Surfaces

Anthony October 05, 2001 08:42AM

Chris, and his URL

Anthony October 05, 2001 08:44AM

Re: Newer Pyramids

Blue October 04, 2001 06:55PM

Thanks Blue

Sandy J. Perkins October 05, 2001 04:44AM

Hiya Chris

R. Avry Wilson October 04, 2001 11:42PM



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