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June 1, 2024, 7:17 pm UTC    
January 21, 2011 12:09PM
From the first link:
There have been incredible, but totally unsubstantiated, claims made as to the time and manpower required to create the ancient copper pits and as to the amount of native copper that has actually been mined. Beginning with Drier and Du Temple in 1961 and Mertz in 1967, through Sodders in 1990, figures of .5 to 1.5 billion pounds (yes billion, not million) have been put forth. Sodders postulates "it is believed that as many as 10,000 miners, labored some 1,000 years, in an estimated 10,000 Copper Range pits". Drier and Du Temple get to their figures with the following faulty assumptions in their 1961 work "Prehistoric Copper Mining in the Lake Superior Region": "If one assumes that an average pit is 20 feet in diameter and 30 feet deep, then it appears that something like 1000 to 1200 tons of ore were removed per pit. If the ore averaged 5% or 100 pounds per ton then approximately 100,000 pounds of copper were removed per pit. If 5000 pits existed, as earlier estimates indicated (and all are copper bearing), then 100,000 pounds per pit in 5000 pits means that 500,000,000 pounds of copper were mined in prehistoric times- all of it without anything more than fire, stone hammers and manpower. If the ore averaged 15% copper and if more than 5000 pits existed, then over 1.5 billion pounds of copper were mined". Where did these figures come from, who created them, based on what evidence?

One has to ask the obvious question, where did all this mined copper go? Some scholars would have us believe that the vast majority was taken by Phoenicians, Berbers, Minoans, Bronze Age Europeans or Vikings in a huge international copper trade centering in the Lake Superior Region. Where is the archeological evidence to support these theories? The truth is that it does not exist. There are no identified community or camp sites, no burial remains, and no identifiable artifacts to support any of these theories. Are we to believe that these foreign miners were so environmentally friendly that they took all their garbage from daily living back with them, along with the copper, and what about their dead, did none of them die here? If there had been mining operations sufficient to produce 500 million to 1.5 billion pounds of copper there would be significant archeological evidence to substantiate it. All of this evidence does exist to demonstrate that the indigenous peoples were the ones who mined the copper and fashioned it into implements, weapons and ornaments, over a period of as much as 7000 years.

Sodders figures of 10,000 miners laboring for 1000 years in an estimated 10,000 pits are pure unsubstantiated bunk. Who counted the 10,000 miners? The Copper Complex copper pits were actually worked much longer than 1000 years, proven by archeological evidence. As for the estimated 10,000 pits, who estimated that number and based upon what data? There has never in recorded history been a comprehensive study and tally done of the number of pits, what is the evidence for this "estimated" number of copper pits?

The estimates put forth by Drier and Du Temple are easily debunked. They start with the errroneous and unsupported assumption that the average pit was 20 feet in diameter and 30 feet deep. An average based upon what sample? No study of these ancient copper pits has ever determined an average size. Few, if any, pits have ever been reported as deep as 30 feet (and this is Drier & Du Temples average depth, so some must be deeper), when in fact many ancient pits or trenches barely scratched the surface by more than a few feet. Twenty feet seems to be the limit on depth of known ancient copper pits and these are few in number.

The assumption of 5000 pits has no supporting documentation as a comprehesive study of the number of pits has never been undertaken and published. Their 5% to 15% copper content is flawed since content can run from zero to 100% (mass copper). The amount of copper in the country rock isn't constant or regular, an expensive fact learned by many early modern mining companies. All of the numbers offered up by Drier and Du Temple are based solely on conjecture, with no basis in fact.

The link to Doug's site now brings up the following warning: This web page at www.ramtops.co.uk has been reported as an attack page and has been blocked based on your security preferences.

IIRC the article also raised similar concerns about the validity of the calculations.

"The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil"

-- Sheikh Zaki Yamani
Subject Author Posted

Where did all the copper go?

Allan Shumaker January 10, 2011 02:20PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 10, 2011 04:13PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Allan Shumaker January 15, 2011 09:04PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 16, 2011 12:43PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Hans January 16, 2011 12:08AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Allan Shumaker January 16, 2011 10:27AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 16, 2011 12:57PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Charlie Hatchett January 16, 2011 02:21PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Allan Shumaker January 16, 2011 09:16PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 17, 2011 12:01PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Charlie Hatchett January 17, 2011 08:22PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 18, 2011 09:02AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 18, 2011 09:56AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Charlie Hatchett January 18, 2011 12:18PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Hans January 16, 2011 11:24PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Allan Shumaker January 16, 2011 01:50PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Charlie Hatchett January 16, 2011 02:19PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

bernard January 16, 2011 02:39PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Frank Hipper January 16, 2011 03:09PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Allan Shumaker January 16, 2011 04:02PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 16, 2011 08:14PM

Moderation request

Hermione January 17, 2011 06:33AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 17, 2011 12:06PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Allan Shumaker January 17, 2011 01:08PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

sansahansan January 18, 2011 08:58AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Pete Clarke January 18, 2011 09:10AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 19, 2011 09:23AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

sansahansan January 19, 2011 01:21PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 19, 2011 03:23PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 19, 2011 07:35PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

sansahansan January 20, 2011 10:45AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 20, 2011 12:24PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

sansahansan January 24, 2011 08:55AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 21, 2011 09:39AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Rick Baudé January 21, 2011 11:16PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Allan Shumaker January 18, 2011 09:59AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 18, 2011 10:03AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Allan Shumaker January 18, 2011 10:08AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 18, 2011 10:00AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Pete Clarke January 18, 2011 10:09AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 18, 2011 10:17AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Pete Clarke January 18, 2011 10:34AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 19, 2011 09:33AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

sansahansan January 18, 2011 02:45PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 18, 2011 04:57PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Pete Clarke January 19, 2011 03:38AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 19, 2011 09:37AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 19, 2011 09:31AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Pete Clarke January 19, 2011 09:49AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 19, 2011 07:41PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Pete Clarke January 20, 2011 03:43AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 20, 2011 09:37AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Pete Clarke January 20, 2011 09:50AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 21, 2011 09:40AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 21, 2011 11:04AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Jammer January 18, 2011 10:47AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 18, 2011 09:04AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Allan Shumaker January 18, 2011 10:02AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 19, 2011 09:39AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 18, 2011 10:20AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Jammer January 18, 2011 10:53AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 18, 2011 02:59AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 18, 2011 09:07AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 18, 2011 10:05AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 19, 2011 09:40AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 21, 2011 08:39PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

sansahansan January 24, 2011 08:58AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 24, 2011 09:24AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

sansahansan January 24, 2011 12:54PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 24, 2011 02:13PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Roxana Cooper January 24, 2011 09:46AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Khazar-khum January 24, 2011 04:28PM

And what the hell is this all about:

Charlie Hatchett January 18, 2011 03:10PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

donald r raab January 18, 2011 04:52PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Charlie Hatchett January 19, 2011 09:50AM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

donald r raab January 19, 2011 09:54AM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Charlie Hatchett January 19, 2011 09:59AM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

donald r raab January 19, 2011 11:02AM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Jammer January 19, 2011 12:01PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

donald r raab January 19, 2011 12:56PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

sansahansan January 19, 2011 01:33PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Allan Shumaker January 19, 2011 02:31PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Charlie Hatchett January 19, 2011 04:21PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

sansahansan January 20, 2011 10:48AM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

donald r raab January 20, 2011 12:26PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

donald r raab January 19, 2011 05:44PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Charlie Hatchett January 19, 2011 05:55PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

donald r raab January 19, 2011 06:43PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Charlie Hatchett January 19, 2011 06:53PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

donald r raab January 19, 2011 03:34PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

sansahansan January 20, 2011 10:58AM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

donald r raab January 19, 2011 05:46PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Charlie Hatchett January 19, 2011 01:28PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Charlie Hatchett January 19, 2011 01:23PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Charlie Hatchett January 19, 2011 01:35PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Charlie Hatchett January 19, 2011 05:50PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Allan Shumaker January 18, 2011 06:27PM

Re: And what the hell is this all about:

Charlie Hatchett January 19, 2011 09:55AM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

donald r raab January 20, 2011 12:47PM

Test the copper

donald r raab January 20, 2011 05:29PM

Not sure where this is .........

Katherine Reece January 20, 2011 07:38PM

Re: Not sure where this is .........

donald r raab January 20, 2011 11:54PM

500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Paul H. January 21, 2011 11:10AM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Allan Shumaker January 21, 2011 12:09PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

donald r raab January 21, 2011 02:02PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Rick Baudé January 21, 2011 03:21PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

donald r raab January 21, 2011 03:56PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Rick Baudé January 21, 2011 05:04PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Roxana Cooper January 21, 2011 07:13PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

sansahansan January 24, 2011 09:05AM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

donald r raab January 24, 2011 09:33AM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

sansahansan January 24, 2011 01:07PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

donald r raab January 24, 2011 02:20PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

sansahansan January 24, 2011 02:48PM

Prospect Pits

Paul H. January 21, 2011 03:49PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

donald r raab January 21, 2011 04:09PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Allan Shumaker January 21, 2011 04:23PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

donald r raab January 21, 2011 04:34PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Charlie Hatchett January 21, 2011 05:00PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Allan Shumaker January 21, 2011 05:55PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Charlie Hatchett January 21, 2011 06:58PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Roxana Cooper January 21, 2011 07:20PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Charlie Hatchett January 21, 2011 08:07PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Rick Baudé January 21, 2011 05:12PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Roxana Cooper January 21, 2011 07:22PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Allan Shumaker January 21, 2011 07:29PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Charlie Hatchett January 21, 2011 08:11PM

Re: Prospect Pits

donald r raab January 21, 2011 08:36PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Katherine Reece January 23, 2011 12:07AM

Re: Prospect Pits

donald r raab January 23, 2011 01:40AM

Re: Prospect Pits

Katherine Reece January 23, 2011 05:08PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Allan Shumaker January 23, 2011 06:36PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Roxana Cooper January 23, 2011 10:15AM

Re: Prospect Pits

donald r raab January 23, 2011 01:27PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Charlie Hatchett January 23, 2011 02:33PM

Re: Prospect Pits

donald r raab January 23, 2011 03:04PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Charlie Hatchett January 23, 2011 09:17PM

Bronze Age

Allan Shumaker January 24, 2011 12:59PM

Re: Bronze Age

donald r raab January 24, 2011 02:29PM

Re: Bronze Age

Roxana Cooper January 24, 2011 03:48PM

Re: Bronze Age

sansahansan January 24, 2011 03:55PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Roxana Cooper January 24, 2011 09:52AM

Re: Prospect Pits

Pete Clarke January 24, 2011 10:06AM

Re: Prospect Pits

sansahansan January 24, 2011 01:09PM

Re: Prospect Pits

donald r raab January 24, 2011 02:23PM

Re: Prospect Pits

donald r raab January 24, 2011 10:36AM

Re: Prospect Pits

sansahansan January 24, 2011 01:12PM

Re: Prospect Pits

donald r raab January 24, 2011 02:27PM

Re: Prospect Pits

sansahansan January 24, 2011 03:03PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Khazar-khum January 24, 2011 04:35PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Roxana Cooper January 24, 2011 07:32PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Hans January 25, 2011 11:17PM

Re: Prospect Pits

Roxana Cooper January 26, 2011 11:13AM

Re: Prospect Pits

Roxana Cooper January 24, 2011 09:49AM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

donald r raab January 21, 2011 04:47PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Allan Shumaker January 21, 2011 05:00PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Charlie Hatchett January 21, 2011 05:14PM

Re: Okay.....

Rick Baudé January 21, 2011 05:57PM

Re: Okay.....

Charlie Hatchett January 21, 2011 07:00PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Rick Baudé January 21, 2011 11:11PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Charlie Hatchett January 22, 2011 11:09AM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Katherine Reece January 23, 2011 05:10PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Charlie Hatchett January 23, 2011 09:19PM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Doug Weller January 26, 2011 10:15AM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Allan Shumaker January 26, 2011 10:34AM

Re: 500,000 Tons of Copper Mined - Whose Estimate is This ???

Doug Weller January 28, 2011 01:18AM

Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Allan Shumaker January 22, 2011 12:21AM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 22, 2011 02:33PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Allan Shumaker January 22, 2011 04:33PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 22, 2011 04:53PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Allan Shumaker January 22, 2011 05:43PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 22, 2011 06:54PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 22, 2011 05:21PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Allan Shumaker January 22, 2011 05:56PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 22, 2011 06:34PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Allan Shumaker January 22, 2011 07:08PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Roxana Cooper January 22, 2011 08:44PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 22, 2011 09:21PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Hans January 23, 2011 01:40AM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Roxana Cooper January 23, 2011 10:20AM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 23, 2011 01:22PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Rebby January 23, 2011 01:38PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 23, 2011 02:13PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Rebby January 23, 2011 02:34PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 23, 2011 03:09PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Rebby January 23, 2011 03:13PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 24, 2011 02:22AM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Roxana Cooper January 24, 2011 09:58AM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 24, 2011 02:30AM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Roxana Cooper January 24, 2011 09:56AM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Katherine Reece January 23, 2011 05:12PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Khodok January 23, 2011 05:40PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab January 23, 2011 11:39PM

Re: Where did all the copper go?

Sam Salmon January 27, 2011 12:19AM

Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Allan Shumaker August 06, 2011 09:38AM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Hermione August 06, 2011 09:48AM

**Moderation request**

Hermione August 06, 2011 09:51AM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

donald r raab August 06, 2011 01:01PM

Re: Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

Hermione August 06, 2011 02:01PM



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