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Petrie went to Giza to check assertions about Khufu geometry and measures (without by the way spending an inordinate amount of time speculating about what the Egyptians might or might not have been able to do). Lehner must similarly be aware that today a number of theories are going the rounds suggesting that the site was laid out to an overall plan. Does the fact that he apparently does not high
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poundr17
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Pistol,
I haven't seen this book. Does Lehner's new survey replace Petrie's?
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Ancient Egypt
Hi MJ,
HP cartridges are notoriously expensive. I have some experience of ink jet printing (archival prints and the like). If you need to print more, have you considered using a 'continuous flow system'? This is nothing more than a special cartridge fitted with plastic tubes, so that bulk ink can be used, and cartridges do not need to be changed. This works out far cheaper. I have d
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Alternative Geometry and Numerology
Hi Jon,
Butler lists a number of references for heights above sea level :
Lehner (Newsletter A.R.C.E, 135, 1986) observed that height of Khufu summit platform is 197.24 m above sea level. Butler takes the summit as 9.45 m higher.
Lehner (M.D.A.I.K., 41, 1985, p.111, also Newsletter A.R.C.E, 131, Fall, 1985), "from Giza maps" , gave the present reduced summit of Khafre as 210, a
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Jon,
And why do the ears of the middle deer appear to be clipped like Set : is the relief damaged?
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Ancient Egypt
fmetrol Wrote:
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> Over a thousand end over ends, who knows?
> A few mm slippage every so often adds up though,
> perhaps a measure half a cubit longer for Khufu's
> base even over a flat surface. You really have to
> get out there and conduct your own experiments. I
> believe the engineer and surveyor A. Thom sai
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poundr17
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Alternative Geometry and Numerology
Hi MJ,
Is it not probable that architect chose the gable angle with care? The actual lengths of the blocks used to make the gable may have been left to the building crews, who knows. But the angle would no doubt have been stipulated (at what? gradient 7 over 10?) for it would require careful cutting. Are the angles of KC and QC gables similar? Gabling was used in a number of later pyramids : a
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Ancient Egypt
fmetrol Wrote:
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> I don't have any problem with long straight lines.
> The really tricky bit is laying out
> pre-determined lengths. As I mentioned in a
> previous post the end on end rod is a non starter.
> Experiments have been done and if you take the
> mean you are always wrong. Putting it bluntly it's
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Alternative Geometry and Numerology
fmetrol Wrote:
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> This is yet another approximation, albeit a
> slightly better one than Clive put up.
>
> If you did use Petrie then you will know that one
> arm is about 5 inches shorter than the other and
> if you convert the same to royal cubits you don't
> get 790.3 = 790.3 but 790.4 and 790.6
> res
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poundr17
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Wayne,
As far as I can see, your construction locates the east side of Khafre over 2 cubits west of where it actually is. Over the level horizontal distance of some 111.6 metres, seperating khufu west side from khafre east side, the setting out errors would more likely have been in the 1 : 1000/2000 range. Also the base of Khafre (411.1 cubits) is larger than your construction dictates (410
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poundr17
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Alternative Geometry and Numerology
Hi Chris,
What was the altitude of Sirius in 2570 BC ? And what of the target of QC north shaft? Are we playing a waiting game for Hawass to release his results?
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Ancient Egypt
Dave L Wrote:
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> Chris Tedder who used to post here, and still does
> sometimes I think, is probably the person with the
> most in depth understanding of the shafts,
> certainly more than John Wall for sure, and as I
> understand it he accepts that the shafts were
> orientated to certain parts of the night sky that
&
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Ancient Egypt
With regard to the hypothesis that the Khufu shafts were aimed at, or symbolically directed towards stars for some cultic purpose; in a recent thread Hermione mentioned that :
>This theory was recently questioned, and rejected, in "The Star Alignment Hypothesis for the >Great Pyramid Shafts", Wall, John J., Journal for the History of Astronomy, Volume 38, Number >2, May 2007
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Ancient Egypt
Hermione Wrote:
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> poundr17 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > the fact that one of the
> > Khufu shafts was aligned to one of the stars
> in
> > question
>
> This theory was recently questioned, and rejected,
> in "The Star Alignment Hypothes
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Ancient Egypt
Dave L Wrote:
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> Yes, but they didn't try to predict the future in
> the way that Augurs did in later times - the
> geometry and numbers usually had a sensibly
> symbolic meaning attached to them, such as to
> bring unity to the country or some such practical
> message.
The jury seems to be still out on whethe
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Ancient Egypt
Dave L Wrote:
> Most of their interest in astronomy was for its
> practical value for identifying directions or
> establishing the date and time.
Well, yes. But were stars 'gods'? Could their positions have been allied to, for example, numerological or 'sacred' geometry concepts?
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Dave,
Simplest to refer you back to the thread 'Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?' :
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Ancient Egypt
Dave L Wrote:
> A large part of our understanding of Ancient
> Egyptian mensuration is based on the architectural
> details observed from the Old Kingdom,
Hi Dave,
I should have thought that since the side of the Great Pyramid is the longest built length available it should, provided the builders worked to a constant tolerance, provide the best estimate of the cubit used by Kh
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Ancient Egypt
Pistol Wrote:
> AERA elevations G1 corners (Khufu Traverse):
>
> NE - G1.1 = 59.696 meters
> NW - G1.2 = 59.374 meters
> SW - G1.3 = 59.870 meters
> SE - G1.4 = 59.603 meters
The mean is 59.636 , or 113.9 cubits of 0.5236 m, rather near to Butler's proposed sea level reference of 114 cubits. But is it really true that eastern Mediterranean sea level has change
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Ancient Egypt
Hi MJ,
Sorry you took it like this. You must not conclude that I consider your work of no value. You may well have come across interesting relations that need to be considered. It is logical to consider that the inside of the pyramid was controlled by the 7/11 slope.
Could we agree that within the Great Pyramid there is priority of layout features? I mean that some elements may be considere
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Ancient Egypt
The diagram in the link you provided has an inset picture of the constructed 'swinging door' at Dashur. Are there any pictures of this area? Does anything here give clues as to what Khufu's arrangement might have been?
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Ancient Egypt
MJ Thomas Wrote:
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> I must confess that I am not at all sure what you
> mean by, ‘…deriving Khufu's
> controlling ratio from a whole number
> approximation to Pi as 22/7’
The pyramids are a form of sacred architecture and the dimensions given to them presumably were selected with the same degree of care that they lavi
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Ancient Egypt
cladking Wrote:
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> It would appear that these were built right into
> the structure
> since they are nearly as prominent at the top as
> the bottom.
I understood that the hollowing is formed by two planes angled in towards the centre and that Khufu and Menkaure both share this feature, but not Khafre. One would expect a
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Ancient Egypt
MJ Thomas Wrote:
> No other equations/ratios are necessary to create
> the entire plan of Khufu's pyramid.
I have no problem with 22/7 since it appears in the chambers of the red pyramid (as I mentioned to you in an earlier post). Gantenbrink made an analysis of the pyramid based on the 7/11 ratio. It may well have been intended to reflect Pi. But there are dimensions in the pyr
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Ancient Egypt
MJ Thomas Wrote:
> I must confess to being very unhappy with Butler’s
> (and others) ascribing building error to
> differences from whole cubits.
In some cases I must agree with you. However, when the difference in a whole cubit length is very small this may be due to building error.
My take is that the builders were thinking primarily in terms of whole numbers. You effectively
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Ancient Egypt
MJ, Pistol, & Clive,
In my latest post I enquired if the 'ceilings' formed by the beams correspond to course heights. But this thread seems to have veered back to the Queen's Chamber, which has a gabled stress-relieving roof like the King's. In view of your obviously very detailed knowledge of Khufu's internal features, I'd be grateful if any of you could poin
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Ancient Egypt
I understand that because of earthquakes and settling of masonry above the gable, the north wall of the King's Chamber complex was thrust towards the Grand Gallery, opening the gable and cracking the granite roof beams.
Antipating the loading problems with respect to the Grand Gallery, it appears the builders decided to spead the load using a gable, and below this attempting to 'tie&
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Ancient Egypt
Presumably then the 'earthquake' exploited the remaining horizontal stress, forcing the chamber towards the Grand Gallery?
poundr17
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Ancient Egypt
I don't Know if this question has been addressed earlier. If so I'd be grateful for a reference.
On a previous post MJ Thomas noted :
> The problem with the Queen's Chamber is that all
> of its four walls lean – the side (north and
> south) walls lean northward (at the east wall more
> so than at the west wall) and the end (east and
> west) walls lean into
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Ancient Egypt
Pete Clarke Wrote:
> At the end of the day there's no real difference
> between littering the place with plastic bags and
> littering it with broken pots and animal bones.
Rubbish.
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Ancient Egypt
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