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May 20, 2024, 12:47 pm UTC    
March 07, 2008 01:36PM
MJ Thomas Wrote:

> I must confess to being very unhappy with Butler’s
> (and others) ascribing building error to
> differences from whole cubits.

In some cases I must agree with you. However, when the difference in a whole cubit length is very small this may be due to building error.
My take is that the builders were thinking primarily in terms of whole numbers. You effectively say this yourself by deriving Khufu's controlling ratio from a whole number approximation to Pi as 22/7. I have no problem with this since it, as well as the Pi ratio 38/12, was noted by Butler in the chambers of the red pyramid (as well as in Khufu mortuary temple). Admittedly he draws his data from M & R and I do not know if this has been refined by later measurements. These are the quantities he identifies derived from chamber and passage dimensions :-

'22' cubits represented as 11.55 m giving cubit 0.525
'22' 11.525 0.5239
'22' 11.56 0.5254
'7' 3.65 0.5214
'7' 3.64 0.520
'38' 19.885 0.5233
'12' 6.25 0.5208

The base of the red quoted by Butler is :-

'420' 219.28 Perring 0.5221
'420' 220 Fakhry 0.5238

...but I don't know if there are better figures?
For comparison, figures extracted from the bent are :-

'362' Dorner mean 189.61 0.5238
'362' Petrie mean 189.46 0.5233

...and the satellite pyramid :-

'100' Petrie 52.44 0.5244

The approximate mean of these figures is sensibly no different from that obtained from Khufu base, ie. 0.52326 m.

> I am equally unhappy with the ascribing of
> different royal cubit lengths to dimensions that
> are not in whole number royal cubits of
> 20.632”/524mms

I agree there was one standard of measure used. But what features compell you to assume 0.524 m?

> The actual length of the Ascending Passage
> (starting at the floor of the Descending Passage)
> is 1546.8”, which equals 74.971rc.

Yes, which is 75.03 cubits of 0.5236 m. ie. the same as that derived from the pyramid base circuit. It looks as if the builders wanted to achieve a vertical rise of 33 cubits and sloping length of 75 cubits and lowered the angle of the passage to achieve this.

> Another example of this massaging of figures to
> suit individual tastes/theories can be seen in the
> Grand Gallery.
> Its floor is 87.994rcs long, but you’ll be told by
> many that it was meant to be 88rcs - and for no
> better reason than 87.994 is very close to 88, and
> nice round whole numbers are very much de rigueur
> with many Pyramid theorists.

Or 88.06 cubits of 0.5236 m.

> Interestingly, you’ll rarely see this happen with
> the Pyramid’s myriad of smaller features.
> The distance between the south wall of the
> Antechamber and the north wall of the King’s
> Chamber is 100.8”, i.e. 4.886rcs @
> 20.632”/524mms.

Here there is a significant departure from whole unit dimensions, as is the case for the subterranean chamber. If this is not an error, what is your explanation for the proportions of the subject of your thread?

As far as overall plans go Butler managed to include more features than anybody else by showing how chamber sizes approximated layout dimensions. (He did not include the subterranean chamber in this). In spite of this his scheme has excited little interest, though I don't think that this was because of the discrepancies you have noticed. More likely it was because of his sea level hypothesis, as well as a general reluctance to entertain transgenerational pyramid schemes. I am not sure from what you have written whether you support an overall layout. If so then should we expect the internal layout of Menkaure to have been designed around its 7/11 slope as well? Alternatively pyramids were designed for individual kings. If Khufu was designed around 7/11 do you believe that the interior of other pyramids were designed according to pyramid slope?

poundr17
Subject Author Posted

Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas February 29, 2008 05:56AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Dave L February 29, 2008 06:45AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas February 29, 2008 11:13AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Dave L February 29, 2008 11:31AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas February 29, 2008 01:13PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Greg Reeder February 29, 2008 03:37PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas February 29, 2008 08:48PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Greg Reeder February 29, 2008 11:03PM

More of Tunnel KV 17

Greg Reeder March 01, 2008 01:15AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Clive February 29, 2008 11:55AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas February 29, 2008 08:22PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

poundr17 March 01, 2008 02:52AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 01, 2008 07:10PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

fmetrol March 01, 2008 08:00PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 02, 2008 08:16AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

fmetrol March 02, 2008 11:06AM

Only the Royal Cubit.

Dave L March 02, 2008 12:36PM

Re: Only the Royal Cubit.

fmetrol March 02, 2008 06:45PM

Re: Only the Royal Cubit.

Dave L March 03, 2008 08:21AM

Re: Only the Royal Cubit.

fmetrol March 03, 2008 09:43AM

Re: Only the Royal Cubit.

Dave L March 03, 2008 11:07AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 03, 2008 07:08PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

fmetrol March 03, 2008 08:46PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 05, 2008 03:30AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

fmetrol March 05, 2008 08:57AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Sirfiroth March 03, 2008 01:21PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Clive March 03, 2008 05:34PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 04, 2008 11:30AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

poundr17 March 04, 2008 01:18PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 05, 2008 05:07PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

poundr17 March 07, 2008 01:36PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Sirfiroth March 04, 2008 09:43PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Clive March 04, 2008 10:57PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Sirfiroth March 05, 2008 08:45AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 05, 2008 03:48PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Clive March 05, 2008 05:18PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 06, 2008 05:13AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Clive March 06, 2008 05:39PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 06, 2008 07:56PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Clive March 06, 2008 10:13PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 07, 2008 04:40AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Clive March 07, 2008 01:58PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 08, 2008 09:12AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 04, 2008 06:17AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Sirfiroth March 04, 2008 10:02PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

poundr17 March 04, 2008 03:44AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Chris Tedder March 03, 2008 04:43AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

fmetrol March 03, 2008 09:37AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

poundr17 March 07, 2008 01:36PM

Re: whole numbers and 11/7

MJ Thomas March 08, 2008 02:14PM

Re: whole numbers and 11/7

poundr17 March 08, 2008 05:46PM

Re: whole numbers and 11/7

MJ Thomas March 09, 2008 10:20AM

Re: whole numbers and 11/7

poundr17 March 15, 2008 08:31AM

Re: whole numbers and 11/7

L Cooper March 15, 2008 09:19AM

Re: whole numbers and 11/7

MJ Thomas March 15, 2008 05:53PM

Re: whole numbers and 11/7

Warwick L Nixon March 15, 2008 11:44AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Clive March 03, 2008 12:27PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 03, 2008 07:47PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

cladking February 29, 2008 09:30PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Robert Bauval February 29, 2008 10:03PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

fmetrol February 29, 2008 11:20PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Robert Bauval March 01, 2008 08:01AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

cladking March 01, 2008 12:30PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

poundr17 March 01, 2008 03:10PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

MJ Thomas March 01, 2008 05:37PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Dave L March 01, 2008 07:01AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Robert Bauval March 01, 2008 07:44AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

fmetrol March 01, 2008 08:29AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Pistol March 01, 2008 09:44PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Robert Bauval March 01, 2008 10:40PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

poundr17 March 02, 2008 02:35AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Robert Bauval March 03, 2008 03:39PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

poundr17 March 03, 2008 05:22PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Pistol March 02, 2008 05:21PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

fmetrol March 02, 2008 03:03AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Pistol March 02, 2008 05:38PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Dave L March 01, 2008 06:37PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Robert Bauval March 01, 2008 10:33PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

cladking March 01, 2008 11:04PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Dave L March 02, 2008 07:13AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Pistol March 01, 2008 11:22PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

poundr17 March 02, 2008 04:13AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Pistol March 02, 2008 11:48PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

poundr17 March 03, 2008 07:40AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

fmetrol March 03, 2008 10:21AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Dave L March 03, 2008 11:03AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Pete Clarke March 03, 2008 11:24AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

poundr17 March 03, 2008 11:35AM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Clive March 03, 2008 06:30PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

cladking March 01, 2008 12:38PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Warwick L Nixon March 01, 2008 02:50PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Tommi Huhtamaki March 01, 2008 02:55PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Warwick L Nixon March 01, 2008 05:00PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Tommi Huhtamaki March 01, 2008 05:26PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

cladking March 01, 2008 06:33PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

cladking March 01, 2008 04:25PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Warwick L Nixon March 01, 2008 05:02PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

cladking March 01, 2008 05:11PM

Re: Khufu's Subterranean Chamber - purpose?

Robert Bauval March 02, 2008 06:49AM

Petrie on the Subterranean Chamber

Jon_B March 02, 2008 03:44PM



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