IF the reason for abandonment was climate change (cold) then heading west and warmth (vinland) made all the sense in the world. records probably would have shown a return to homeland evacuation but to Vinland; not so much.
If Vinland was an asterix type adventure going west was not an option. If there was excursions back and forth over the centuries (boat repair in Lanse meadows) then that w
by
donald r raab
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Ancient History
I may be naive, but isn't also possible some of these Greenland colonists migrated to the NA continent as well? Perhaps following the stories in the saga of Markland, vinland etc?
by
Anonymous User
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Ancient History
They are not suggesting greenland; Vinland and cross arctic trade
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donald r raab
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Ancient History
donald r raab Wrote:
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> For Roxana and Khazar as well as others.
>
> 1. Valsequillo and Calico. Declaring a dead
> horse is another way to dismiss.
Reading comprehension is hard.
I didn't call this one a dead horse. I think Calico needs a closer look.
>
> 3. Hobbits. Not just expand the search 50 m
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Khazar-khum
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Ancient History
For Roxana and Khazar as well as others.
1. Valsequillo and Calico. Declaring a dead horse is another way to dismiss. Personally the WHOLE mainstream archaeological response to both should be investigated and aired out. As I've said many times it may turn out there is nothing there. The mainstream response says hid any way possible. that alone makes it suspect. And the site may NOT
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donald r raab
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Ancient History
Roxana Cooper Wrote:
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> donald r raab Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1. Valsequillo-calico-topper Early
> Americans;
> > not first Americans
>
> Like I keep saying, stop beating the dead horse
> of Valsequillo which has been compromised and look
> el
by
Khazar-khum
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Ancient History
donald r raab Wrote:
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> 1. Valsequillo-calico-topper Early Americans;
> not first Americans
Like I keep saying, stop beating the dead horse of Valsequillo which has been compromised and look elsewhere. There SHOULD be remains elsewhere to be found.
> 2. Central African civilizations
I gather that Central Africa is
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Roxana Cooper
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Ancient History
1. Valsequillo-calico-topper Early Americans; not first Americans
2. Central African civilizations
3. Look for more hobbits outside flores
4. Pacific trade over 4k years
5. Just what was Vinland? Trading area;colony;one of lanse meadows was ALWAYS considered a way station and boat repair facility. A boat/road to nowhere? Only politicians do those.
6. Mezo to bali and back. The
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donald r raab
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Ancient History
Frank Hipper Wrote:
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> I know this going a bit off-topic, but the idea
> that the so-called Vinland Map could be Portuguese
> or French in origin has a certain appeal to me.
(Cross reference to a previous thread)
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Hermione
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Ancient History
I can't remember where it was I first heard about Portuguese fishermen making landfall in Canada while fishing the Grand Banks, but it's been quite some time ago...and I could swear that French fishermen doing the same at a similar date was mentioned as well.
I know this going a bit off-topic, but the idea that the so-called Vinland Map could be Portuguese or French in origin has a c
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Frank Hipper
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Ancient History
donald r raab Wrote:
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> Well you see THAT is patently questionable. There
> are points of view (see at the actual lanse
> meadows site)that the site was operable from 1000
> to 1400 ad. It was a boat repair facility. Not a
> colony attempt per say. And a boat repair
> facility implies repairs so boats can return h
by
Doug Weller
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Ancient History
The saga accounts of the failed colonization of Vinland doesn't suggest there was much time or interest in trade between Vikings and Skraelings. We'll know more if and when we discover another Viking site.
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Roxana Cooper
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Ancient History
Negative Greg, and my memory was faulty...
>"To date, only one other artifact has been found indicating contact between Norse and Native
> people in the Vinland region: a Norwegian silver penny dating to the reign of Olaf Kyhre,
> minted between A.D. 1065 and 1080, found at the Goddard site, a large Indian site in
> Penobscot Bay, Maine."
Silver isn't copper
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Jammer
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Ancient History
I think this is a ship diagram bernard missed.
Supposedly near the copper site in Wisconsin. Can anyone confirm that? Now what kind of ship? The story implies and egyptian/Phoenecian type from BC. having ridden a replica Viking ship it could also be that with the high prows. Either dating would settle one story. Mediterraenean trade with the Midwest or the Vikings deep in Vinland. t
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donald r raab
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Ancient History
Well you see THAT is patently questionable. There are points of view (see at the actual lanse meadows site)that the site was operable from 1000 to 1400 ad. It was a boat repair facility. Not a colony attempt per say. And a boat repair facility implies repairs so boats can return home or move on (vinland).
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donald r raab
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Ancient History
If not even the LDS takes this seriously...
By the way confirmation of the historical factuality of the Vinland settlement does NOT mean various inscribed stones (coincidently discovered by Scandinavian immigrants) are genuine!
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Roxana Cooper
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Ancient History
And if climate was such a larg factor(cold) then one would expect Greenlanders heading west and south to warmth. Think that they knew of Vinland.
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donald r raab
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Ancient History
Hvitramanaland Is mentioned in the Erik the Red Saga
QuoteWhen they sailed from Vinland they got a south wind and reached Markland, where they found five Skraelings, one of them a grown man with a beard, two women, and two children, Karlsefni captured the boys but the others escaped and sank down into the ground. The boys they kept with them, taught them their language, and they were babtiz3e
by
Pacal
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Ancient History
1. Plato. Sure is. Im not weighing any other part of the story. Just the Atlantic navigable part. His world was Greece and maybe Egypt. The navigable part and the dead sea directly imply concrete if second hand knowledge. The story could easily have been limited to the Med (where there is an abundance of evidence about volcanos end sinking islands. Why park it out past the pillars of Hu
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donald r raab
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Ancient History
donald r raab Wrote:
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> Lets see here.
>
> 1. Plato describing the Atlantic as navigable
> sometime in the past. The description of the dead
> area (Sargosso sea) implies concrete knowledge.
Please tell me this isn't in the Crito when he talks about Atlantis!
> 2. Hints of some kind of ancient sea cult
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Roxana Cooper
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Ancient History
Lets see here.
1. Plato describing the Atlantic as navigable sometime in the past. The description of the dead area (Sargosso sea) implies concrete knowledge.
2. Hints of some kind of ancient sea culture with relaible sailing/rowing skills. (hancock-Schoch among many others).
3. Peri-reis map which implies knowledge about areas not yet explored BEFORE Columbus.
4. Vinland map implying
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donald r raab
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Ancient History
This would have been well before the Viking Age. And according to the Vinland sagas 'Skraelings' (native americans) were tough enough to send the Viking settlers running.
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Roxana Cooper
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Ancient History
On this board?
Ignoring the fact that you seem to think that there is some sort of gestalt Ma'atian the point I made was that the majority of the sagas are considered histories - indeed Vinland was identified as the Americas by the Icelanders almost immediately on their "discovery" by the rest of the world.
You are the one reducing things to "myth or not", no one el
by
Pete Clarke
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Ancient History
Roxana Cooper Wrote:
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> The fact that no other maps of Viking provenance
> exist is a big argument against the Vinland map.
It is an argument against the map being made by Vikings. Who ever claimed it was drawn by Vikings?
by
Allan Shumaker
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Ancient History
The fact that no other maps of Viking provenance exist is a big argument against the Vinland map.
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Roxana Cooper
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Ancient History
That is the typical alternative position. That these portalano charts reflected a much aerlier mapping of areas not know prior to Columbus.
The continuous theme among those of that persuasion is that there was contact by someone that would indicate a far different world view than mainstream holds. Many moons ago Anthony described how the supposed Antartica features were better mated to Sou
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donald r raab
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Ancient History
Evidence Donald! Find me an L'anse aux Meadows or even find me some old world record of such voyages. The Vikings had sagas describing the attempted colonization of 'Vinland' the Romans, with their intense interest in new lands and strange peoples completely fail to mention lands beyond the pillars of Hercules that they actually TRADED with??? For that matter where are the Americ
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Roxana Cooper
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Ancient History
Bringing the boys back was apparently considered more noteworthy than some Viking getting sentimental over the Skraeling girl he'd been bedding and taking her home with him or perhaps more likely taking his halfbreed daughter home with him when the colony was abandoned. Obviously the Vinland-Greenland-Iceland-Scandinavia traffic went both ways! We know that the Vikings abandoned their sett
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Roxana Cooper
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Ancient History
donald r raab Wrote:
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> 1. Did these indians come from iceland or
> greenland?
There is no archeological record of the Inuit or Indians on Iceland. There are a few brief mentions in the Sagas of Irish monks on the islands around Iceland when the Norse first arrived. They apparently were killed or wisely evacuated leaving Iceland
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Allan Shumaker
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Ancient History
1. Did these indians come from iceland or greenland?
2. If Vinland that is another story all together.
3. The viking site at lanse meadows is portrayed as boat repair facility. There have been some indications that his site was in operation up until the 14th century. Then there is a map (Vinland) that could also explain a boat repair facility if the boats were moving on to other parts of v
by
donald r raab
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Ancient History