I've heard two translations of the word "Anasazi", both "ancient enemy" and "ancient ones". Considering the irritation the word has for the Pueblo tribes, I would guess that the former is the most accurate.
I should've added something else that I wasn't really clear about. When Navajo went raiding and took prisoners, those prisoners were not treat
by
Stephanie
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Ancient History
Pacal Wrote:
>
> Please indicate the evidence for Kublai Khan
> wanting access to the Kuroshiro current.
No evidence, just conjecture.
>
> You say:
>
Quoteo, no, I don't believe he got anywhere
> near the Americas. However, it is of interest that
>
> at the same time, the tribes of the southwest
> where in a panic; pullling off river bottoms
by
Duncan Craig
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Ancient History
And isn't Anasazi the Navajo word for enemy? Or ancient enemy?
by
Katherine Reece
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Ancient History
you say:
QuoteKhublais invasions of Japan indicate to me that he wanted Japan as a staging area and an access point to the Kuroshiro current that sweeps across the Pacific. One of the indications is his military tactics in battling the samurai. He didn't pursue them inland, and instead, secured the coast and showed no interest in wiping out the samurai. Of course, the typhoon destroyed th
by
Pacal
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Ancient History
Duncan Craig Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, no, I don't believe he got anywhere near the
> Americas. However, it is of interest that
> at the same time, the tribes of the southwest
> where in a panic; pullling off river bottoms and
> creating defensible cliff dwellings and a series
> of sighting towers along the southwest. Many
by
Stephanie
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Ancient History
PS,
I wrote about this years ago in Sci.archeology. Menzies must have missed that post, but I see he found the one about an ancient canal.
by
Duncan Craig
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Ancient History
Doug Weller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> This is actually from the Financial Times.
>
> "Menzies, the author of the bestseller, 1421: The
> Year China Discovered the World, now reckons the
> eunuch's men were merely following in the wake of
> sailors answering to Mongol conqueror Kublai Khan,
> who he thinks m
by
Duncan Craig
-
Ancient History
This is actually from the Financial Times.
"Menzies, the author of the bestseller, 1421: The Year China Discovered the World, now reckons the eunuch's men were merely following in the wake of sailors answering to Mongol conqueror Kublai Khan, who he thinks made it to America in the 13th century."
Duncan, do you actually think this happened?
by
Doug Weller
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Ancient History
Personally, I think the whole thing has less to do with Chinese history and more to do with Menzies' own latent guilt over his western European colonialist history.
But hey... I'm not a psychologist, nor do I play one on TV.
by
Anthony
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Ancient History
Can I just say, as an ethnic Chinese and in repsonse to some of the political stuff from the cnn article above, that I personally don't yet know of a single Chinese who takes either this information (about the map) or Gavin Menzies' claims seriously. Even the Chinese channels, which have had several recent programmes specifically about Zheng He and are hardly accurate sources for histor
by
darkuser
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Ancient History
Hello Principia,
Thanks for your clarity. You ROCK, girl! I have been having this discussion with Bernard for almost, no it has been, at least ten years. And you are a breath of fresh air. This dialogue seems to fall back on default position arguments. Chinas shipbuilding didn't occur in a vaccuum, and I still doubt that Chinese artifacts in the Pre-Columbian New World would be recogniz
by
Duncan Craig
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Ancient History
On the "Overall Map of the Geography of All Under Heaven" and Zheng He's Fleets
by Gong Ying-yan of the Ningbo Institute of Technology, Zhejiang University
(Written 15 Jan 2006)
(Chinese original at: )
(Draft translation by Geoff Wade 16 January 2006)
(Text)
2005 marks the 600th anniversary of the first voyage to the Western Ocean by Zheng He, and many people both with
by
Doug Weller
-
Ancient History
Principia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doug Weller Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Principia Wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Well, I agree. My point was about the
> oddity
> > of
> > > California as an island. The depiction
> of it
> > in
by
Duncan Craig
-
Ancient History
Doug Weller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Principia Wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Well, I agree. My point was about the oddity
> of
> > California as an island. The depiction of it
> in
> > the Chinese map merely reminded me of it. I
> was
> > not arguing in favor of the map being based
> on
> > Chin
by
Principia
-
Ancient History
Principia Wrote:
>
> Well, I agree. My point was about the oddity of
> California as an island. The depiction of it in
> the Chinese map merely reminded me of it. I was
> not arguing in favor of the map being based on
> Chinese journeys, nor did I even say so.
>
Again, I want to be sure that you realise I didn't think you were arguing this was really wha
by
Doug Weller
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Ancient History
bernard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Principia Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > bernard Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It is not just a question of what the
> > specific
> > > claim is in archaeology (or
by
Principia
-
Ancient History
Once again the besides the points, ad hominims etc. How predictable.
you say:
QuoteOf course Bernard will say whooee to all of it because there NEVER but NEVER was any kind of contact let alone sustained contact. Now to this map:
Why do you you keep repeating this falsehood no matter how often it is pointed out to you?
And of course you ignore again and again the sheer slopyness of Me
by
Pacal
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Ancient History
bernard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
People like Menzies,
> Hancock, Cremo, etc, certainly do not fall into
> the "honest, naive" category. they are out to make
> a ton of money and you don't do this by retracting
> previous claims even if shown to be erroneous.
***
There's a certain author who has retracted previous cla
by
JimLewandowski
-
Ancient History
Principia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bernard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is not just a question of what the
> specific
> > claim is in archaeology (or alternative
> medicine,
> > linguistics, physics, etc.) but, rather, one
> of
> > methodology. Are the standar
by
bernard
-
Ancient History
It probably is a genuine 1763 map. The Chinese frequently copied old maps, changing them as they copied them. This seems to be another one in that tradition. Not a hoax, but not a faithful copy of an original map. The 1763 copyist may not have even know for sure the date of the map which he was copying.
Ricci arrived in China in 1598, and a dozen or so maps seem to have been drawn by Europe
by
Doug Weller
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Ancient History
bernard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is not just a question of what the specific
> claim is in archaeology (or alternative medicine,
> linguistics, physics, etc.) but, rather, one of
> methodology. Are the standard rules of scientific
> (or at least honest) investigations going to be
> followed?
Good question. But when posing it
by
Principia
-
Ancient History
It is quite remarkable how various alternative archaeologists are
not only completely confused by rather common everyday
geological objects, i.e. natural concretions, but are naive to point
that they accept anything posted to the Internet and published in
popular publications as being completely truth without bothering
to verify the facts for themselves. The “Mysterious Spheres” or
“Sphe
by
Paul H.
-
Ancient History
Shades of the Vinland map and Peri Reis. We just have had ALL kinds of fakers and hoaxists drawing these gems to mislead the orthodox.
I suspect the authenticity of this map like the Vinland map will NEVER be settled. It is real, no it is a fake, but hold on this says it s real , so look at this it got to be a fake.
We have numerous maps ; some original and some copies; that just don'
by
donald r raab
-
Ancient History
From the discussion on MapHist:
"he Chinese often would copy a map
and ascribe it to a venerable ancestor for many reasons. One can't
take any map done in 1763 and assume it is a "xerox" copy of a 15th C
map. It just didn't happen. I have seen many maps like this in
various Chinese texts. And in varying degrees of distortion. Given
that this one is in two h
by
Doug Weller
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Ancient History
"At 25 metres (83ft) long and 10 metres (33ft) wide..."
"Is this one of the Super Junks that traveled all over the East collecting animals and what not?"
No:
"1421 The Year China Discovered the World
Gavin Menzies
Published by Bantam Press, London
"...On the 8th of March, 1421, the largest fleet the world had ever seen sailed from its base in China. Th
by
Oaky
-
Ancient History
Cartographic Controversy
by Kirsten A. Seaver
What region does Albertin de Virga's missing
fifteenth-century world map depict in its northwestern
corner? A historian examines the map's antiquarian history,
its 1932 disappearance, and de Virga's likely sources of
information about the Far North.
the Venetian cartographer Albertin de Virga does not loom large in
medieval ma
by
Doug Weller
-
Ancient History
My guess is the map he is refering to is the "De Virga" map from ca. 1415. The map has stirred some controversy as it shows a vast, North-America-shaped "phantom continent" on the western area. The De Virga map is a polar projection map based out of the Mongol city of Samarkand. At that time (1410s) the grandson of Timerlane had built a 160+ ft long astrolabe in Samarkand and
by
Josh
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Ancient History