Katherine Griffis-Greenberg Wrote:
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> Rick Baudé Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Katherine Griffis-Greenberg Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > > Well we have Tut's body, the
> fetuses of
> > both of his daughters, the body in KV 55.
> Along
> > with Yuya and Thuya who proposed as her
> possible
> > > parents. And I believe the skeleton of
> > Mutnojmet's her putative sister.
> > >
> > > Actually, we have NO remains of anyone
> > related to Nefertiti, unless Tutankhamun is
> her son.
> >
> > What I was trying to say is that there IS A
> > SELECTION of Amarna bodies to run DNA tests
> on
> > if and when the undisputed body of Nefertiti
> is
> > ever found.
>
> We have Tutankhamun and we have the KV 55 mummy.
> If Tutankhamun is NOT Nefertiti's son, he is of no
> use and the KV 55 remains - if Akhenaten - will
> have no mtDNA available related to Nefertiti - if
> not Akhenaten, but a son of Amenhotep III - he
> will have no mtDNA related to Nefertiti - and if
> an unrelated person (the body of the Hittite
> Prince Zannanza has been suggested, though not
> widely accepted) - again, no mtDNA related to
> Nefertiti.
>
> The general consensus is Nefertiti is probably NOT
> related to Tiye and so also, not to Thuya or Yuya.
> We might have the body of Tiye, though this is
> questionable (the age of the Elder Lady remains is
> more on line for Tiye, so the 'Elder Lady as
> Nefertiti' theory (by Susan James) does appear
> disproven). It's also possible the body of the
> Elder Lady is not related to the Amarna royals at
> all, but is a royal from another period of the
> 18th Dynasty (consider, for example, daughters of
> Amenhotep III not from Tiye, or even Mutemwiya,
> Amenhotep III's mother).
>
> Again, the idea that Horemheb's queen Mutnedjmet
> is related to Nefertiti is also unlikely as it has
> been found the that half-sister of Nefertiti did
> not possess that name - her name was, instead,
> Mutbenret -not Mutnedjmet. Mutnedjmet possess no
> titles, no relationships with the Amarna royals as
> far as can be ascertained.
>
> At best, you have the two fetuses in the tomb of
> KB 62 (Tutankhamun) who may be Ankhsenamun's
> children (which means Nefertiti's mtDNA should be
> present) - but then again, a king could have many
> wives and these children may not be hers. What
> then?
>
> So, what "selection" of undisputed Amarna bodies
> do you have in mind to run these mtDNA tests upon
> when Nefertiti's body is found?

That is why I'm for doing DNA studies on ALL the Egyptian mummies and put an end to these arguments that seem to go everywhere in general and nowhere in particular. Then we'd know for a fact who is related to whom.

>
> > I won't argue the point. Interesting about
> > Akhsenamun, though. Generally speaking I
> don't
> > take names too terribly seriously as proof
> of
> > anything. In addition to that I've never
> taken the
> > idea that Neferiti was related to Horemhab's
> wife
> > as anything more than another Amarna urban
> legend.
> > Just go through Beckman's king list contrary
> to
> > what people think these guys had hundreds of
> > different names.
>
> Do you mean Jurgen von Beckerath? In this case I
> think taking at least the author's name seriously
> would advance this discussion.

Yes. I was busy and had about 5 things going at once when I posted that e-mail.
>
> I think you are also confusing what von Beckerath
> was doing. He gives the various classical name
> references (usually as found in Josephus and other
> classical authors) and tries to correspond them
> with names of known kings of Egypt, where
> possible. Then he gives all (and I mean all)
> variations of the son-of-Ra (birth) name, throne
> name, and titularies. I think he's done a good
> job on this, and at least gives an idea where the
> Manethian kinglists were trying to go.

I had no idea that Beckerath was trying to do that. The introduction is in German so if it's in there I naturally missed it. And yes I know that he gives all of the names. I stand in awe of his list.
>
> Reference:
>
> von Beckerath, J. 1999 (1984). Handbuch der
> ägyptischen Königsnamen. Münchner Ägyptologische
> Studien, Bd. 49. G. Burkard and D. Kessler. Mainz:
> von Zabern.
>
> which should be read in conjunction with
>
> von Beckerath, J. 1997. Chronologie des
> Pharonischen Ägypten. Die Zeitbestimmung von der
> Vorzeit bis 332 v. Chr. Münchner Ägyptologische
> Studien 46. G. Burkard and D. Kessler. Mainz: von
> Zabern.
>
> Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
>
> Oriental Institute
> Oriental Studies Doctoral Program
> Oxford University
> Oxford, United Kingdom
>
>